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Syncing backing track with music-where to start?

S

SuperAlex

Jul 9, 2009
8
0
Halifax
#1
Well, I've decided that through new doors and oppourtunities which have recently been opened for me (Friend comming home from recording arts canada school in MTL and starting up a small studio), that were gonna add some extra oumph our live shows, so the idea is to have some backing tracks and samples to add texture live. We have thought about adding keys live, but by having a pre-set backing track, we can add lots of things extra that keys couldnt as easily cover, and we are saving ourself the pain of having a 5th member in the band (less members, less hasle).

A musician thats been utilizing this kind of thing for a while now has been Devin Townsend.

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(Warning, metal content)

Anyways, what I imagine this would entail is recording all the music with these extra sample and keys tracks, then isolating the tracks as a seperate file to play on a mac or pc live underneath the live mix through the live mix.

Correct me if I've got this all confused haha, I've just got these new and loose ideas, and I feel this could add a unique edge to a band starting off in an almost overly generic sounding scene.

Also, if you have any recomendations as to what sorts of gear or software could make this part of the preformance a little easier. I've heard tell of people using Jam Manager with and Electro harmonic loops station or Pro Tools tracks or things of that nature.

Thanks guys, sorry for the novel, I just didnt really know how to describe what i was looking for. All and any information or links are welcomed!:)
 
#2
Nothing new here.

You need a decent headphone amp for the drummer, and will have to record 2 mono versions of your tracks--1 with click for the drummer and 1 without for FOH.
Direct box for the FOH version, and the more you can spend on the DI the better.

You'll need a soundman who doesn't have his head up his butt, because getting the monitor mix right with tracks can be a bitch.
 
#4
it depends how intricate you want to get. my band sometimes plays with a drummer, sometimes not, so we use a Motu 828 i was using for home recording. on a MacBook (i freaking hate Apple) we run Ableton Live. each song has going on different tracks....

01) L and R of backing audio to the FOH
02) L and R of backing audio to stage/practice monitors
03) L = all backing mono / R = click track to cheapie outboard mixer so the drummer can control his headphone backing/click volume himself

01) and 02) have extra drum sequences that can be easily turned on or off depending on if we have a live drummer

all are going out different outputs on the Motu. 828's have 8 distinct audio outs, and it's nice to be able to route to different devices really easily.

we also have a midi track running for lights... there's a interface box we found that does on/off/fade controlled by midi so we can have super-synced lights running.

hope this helps.
 
#5
I'm not sure how he does it exactly, but our guitarist has been running click-track keys and such for a long time.
I've been with this band for four years now, and I've seen him switch from CD's to an iPod nano to play the click tracks.

Our drummer uses headphones for those tunes coming straight from the board. The iPod is plugged into the "tape in" on the board, and the signal is sent out to FOH as well as to our monitors. The iPod version is MUCH more reliable, not to mention more portable as well.

We use the iPod to play break music too.

I know the click is panned to either left or right, and the keys or whatever are panned to the other side in the headphones. When it comes through the monitors and FOH it's all mixed evenly. It works very well, and we do it right from stage ourselves, no extra soundman needed.

I hope this helps some. At least you've got some more ideas.

Good luck!
 
#6
what Esquillama is talking about is a great way to run backing for reliability and ease.

the setup i described is more flexible and allows you to do stuff like how we just use a midi keyboard and all the live synth tones are played through Kontact, a software sampler.

depends what all you want to do with them, how much gear (and time) you want to invest in, and if you are just running backing tracks with no ability to have live interaction.

yarble.
 
#7
Yeah - this really is the best/easiest way. When you just have the L=click, R=tracks thing going into a small mixer for the drummer, s/he can just get their own mix together, just let the FOH worry about the track.

The biggest hurdle is getting sounds on your backing track that will sit well in the mix, when pumped through the pa at the venue. It's real easy to get sidetracked when mixing it down at home, and making it sound good on *your* system - which, among other problems, usually gives you way too much low end at the venue. Shoot for "balanced" rather than "big sounding", whatever that means to you.
 
#8
First step.. have the drummer work with someone who is focused on live looping/synching.

I can't see what software they're using.. it didn't really look like Ableton (kind of preferred for live)

I'd be starting with how to "quantize" live.. this is something the drummer is normally best at doing to help your groove...

OPINION - I'd start by a budget, and maybe scouring the forms for Ableton Live.. hold off on buying gear - this is a long abyss that commonly goes down the wrong track.
 
#10
I'm not into metal.. found the guy intereesting.. quite the gear pimp.

Not sure if you looked down the youtube links.. there are some that have large screens of computer monitors on them.. doesn't look to be Ableton.

He seems to be down to earth and a gear pimp -- have you tried seeing if the guy has a form or email address?
 
#11
A band I used to be in used backing tracks, and sometimes the drummer missed, or got off, on the count in. So I recorded the words "one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight", and saved them as individual files.
Then I dropped them in on the downbeats for a 2 measure count in, in front of each backing track. I ran a click, too, and used the vocal counts as cues, when needed - like they were also used in spots where the drummer was out for a few measures, so he would have a cue to come back in.
 
#12
azureblue said:
A band I used to be in used backing tracks, and sometimes the drummer missed, or got off, on the count in. So I recorded the words "one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight", and saved them as individual files.
Then I dropped them in on the downbeats for a 2 measure count in, in front of each backing track. I ran a click, too, and used the vocal counts as cues, when needed - like they were also used in spots where the drummer was out for a few measures, so he would have a cue to come back in.
Click to expand...

I've also added vocal cues during the song (i.e. "verse 1" "guitar solo in 1,2,3,4" "vocal break in 1,2,3,4" ) but that was in a duo situation with no drummer, just guitar and bass and vocs. I recorded everything (ambient percussion loops mostly) in Cakewalk Sonar, recorded my vocal cues ( I also said the name of the song at the beginning, just to make sure we were playing the right song!) bounced to mp3, cues left channel, FOH instruments right channel. We used in-ears, so it was easy to hear.
We only played like that a couple of times, but it worked pretty well.
 
#13
azureblue said:
A band I used to be in used backing tracks, and sometimes the drummer missed, or got off, on the count in. So I recorded the words "one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight", and saved them as individual files.
Then I dropped them in on the downbeats for a 2 measure count in, in front of each backing track. I ran a click, too, and used the vocal counts as cues, when needed - like they were also used in spots where the drummer was out for a few measures, so he would have a cue to come back in.
Click to expand...

That's a brilliant idea!
 
#15
If you go back you can find that the "Who" did this.
Keith Moon had headphones on to listen to the click.

You can also play to a recorded track, but the new software lets you play out in real time and switch things up. That's the real value of a computer over straight recorded tracks.
Ableton live is great for this, but it has a steep learning curve and it's expensive.

Some other chunks of software you might want to look at. (no particular order)
Band in a Box - pgmusic.com
It has "Realtracks" and can make up it's own parts
And it has a Conductor
You can loop, skip ahead, jump back, all live.
If the crowd is getting into a song you can go another chorus.
If they're hating it you you can jump to a tag ending.
You can also change the key if you have a guest singer.

MidiMaestro
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It does audio also, but you'll have to record that yourself.
Again jump around in a song, jump to specific points. It does Fermata and it's conductor will let you tap out a rubato section exactly along with a singer.

Sibelius - it also has a tap tempo that will follow you and all the real music notation.

I've used all these live to be a virtual band member to cover one part or another. And they all have their good and bad points. And there are many more other packages that people seem to use for both DAW and live.
 
#16
The click should be on a separate track, so that anyone who wants it can have it, and at the level they want relative to the backing track(s) and the live instruments.

The more you separate instruments into separate tracks the better, both for your monitor mixes and your house mix. (I recently provided backline for a national act that ran 12 tracks including click.)
 

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