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tape wounds and noise

Hi everybody! Potentially dumb question here ...

I just put Step Up tape wounds on a PJ parts bass I have. I've played bass for a long time, but I did not know about the noise issue with tapes. I love these strings though!

Weird question: if only the bass string is round wound, would that suffice to complete the circuit, thereby eliminating the noise?
Noise issue??? I've been playing my LaBella White Tape Wounds strings for over three years now on a Passive Jazz bass with single coil pickups and my strings are super quiet. Prior to that I used round wounds and they didn't make any electronic noise. They did make more string noise and fret noise when playing than the tape wounds, but neither the round wounds nor the tape wounds make any hum or buzz.

By the way, I use a wireless and only use a cord if I didn't charge my GS10 wireless up enough or didn't change the batteries in my G50. Even with the cord, there is no sound, buzz, or hum generated.
 
It's not a problem until it is a problem... Have played a couple rooms with funky old wiring where tapes (or other coated strings) were quite noisy (and a separate issue from shielding). Ball ends making contact is less the issue than that the strings are insulated from the player.... Easy way to test if the ball end is making grounding contact with the bridge is to just touch the corresponding tuning machine - ground should complete through the core, etc. Yes, string through body would rely on the uninsulated string itself making contact with the bridge rater than just the ball end.

Roger Sadowsky on the issue - he's talking coated strings but all the same applies to tapes:

Coated Strings: The Uncoated Truth
Roger Sadowsky

Over the last several years, there has been a proliferation of “coated” strings on the market. Beginning with Elixir strings, almost every string manufacturer has begun to offer coated strings. Some of these coatings are advertised to offer longer string life and smoother feel, while others are strictly cosmetic (ie: colored strings).

Unfortunately, it appears that most of these manufacturers do not have a clue about how electric instruments work and the effect that some of these coatings have on the performance of electric guitars and basses. Let me explain:

Over the last several years, I have had players contact me regarding noise or grounding problems. They were experiencing a hum that was new to them. So I would take them through the following trouble-shooting procedure:

RS: Plug your bass or guitar into your amp so you can hear the hum you are dealing with.

Player: OK.

RS: Touch the strings and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: No, it doesn’t.

RS: Touch the plug where your cable plugs into your instrument and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: Yes, it does.

RS: Touch the bridge and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: Yes, it does.

RS: Touch the strings and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: No, it doesn’t

RS: Are you using coated strings?

Player: Yes, I am.

RS: Switch back to uncoated strings and let me know what happens.

Player(s): [In every instance, the hum goes away with uncoated strings.]

So, what have we learned from this troubleshooting? Almost every electric guitar and bass has a “string ground.” This is a wire that usually resides under the bridge and runs to the control cavity of the instrument. The wire is stripped under the bridge, making direct contact with the metal bottom of the bridge.The other end of the wire is connected to a “ground” point in the control cavity. When the player touches the strings or the bridge of the instrument, the player’s body completes connecting the instrument to “ground” and the extraneous hum goes away. On a properly shielded instrument, shielding will remove 90% of the hum that goes away by grounding the instrument, but a string ground is still necessary, especially under difficult conditions like stage lighting and old building wiring.

The problem is that the coated strings are mostly NON-CONDUCTIVE. The result of this is that the coated strings defeat the function of the string ground and cause hum problems for the player.

Recently, a popular bass magazine published a review of a coated string on the market. I wrote a letter to the editor discussing this issue and the fact that the reviewed coated strings were nonconductive.I said that string makers who use non-conductive coating should be required to put a warning label on their packaging that says “these strings are non-conductive and may increase electronic hum and noise.” The response I received from the editor was: “Is this something you’d feel comfortable with printing on the letters page of the magazine? Might be a tricky one, though – not looking to start any quarrels…”

After two issues passed without my letter being printed, I realized at that point that bowing at the altar of advertiser dollars was more important than telling the truth.

I took it upon myself to test all the brands of coated strings on the market and make my results available to the public. Fortunately, Bass Gear Magazine agreed to publish this information. Strings are tested with an analog ohm meter set to RX1K ohms.One probe is placed on coated wrap near the ball end of the string… the other probe on a coated portion on the opposite end of the string. The meter will go to “zero” if the string is conductive.

Based upon my tests, only two string brands employed coatings which proved to be conductive: Clear tone and D’Addario. Both of these brands use a coating that is very thin and undetectable. Their coatings are conductive, and get the Sadowsky seal of approval.

Based upon my tests, the following string brands (in alphabetical order) employed coatings which proved to be non-conductive: DR, Elixir, Ernie Ball, GHS and Rotosound.

Conclusion: I can only recommend using conductive coated strings made by Clear tone and D’Addario. All of the other companies should, in my professional opinion, discontinue these coatings or put a warning on their packages disclosing that their coatings are non-conductive and may cause hum problems with electric instruments.
 
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Silvertone was a SEARS brand sold up until 1972 and then after that Sam Ash bought the name I believe?
Nerd or not, there were a lot of budding guitarists/bassists playing those nerdy guitars despite any stigma. :woot:

Just never knew JC Penney had a brand as well. Thanks to @Eddie LeBlanc for this tid bit of knowledge.:thumbsup:

We now return to our regularly scheduled program, er, uh post......:smug:

When I was a kid (in the 80s) JC Penny sold Harmony guitars and basses, I believe. I really wanted a Harmony bass but ended up dodging that bullet and got a Peavey for my first bass.
 
When I was a kid (in the 80s) JC Penny sold Harmony guitars and basses, I believe. I really wanted a Harmony bass but ended up dodging that bullet and got a Peavey for my first bass.
Harmony can't be too shabby if this young lady is playing one? Or at least certain models?:)
image.jpg

06-Tal-9475.jpg
 
Harmony can't be too shabby if this young lady is playing one? Or at least certain models?:)
View attachment 4270030
View attachment 4270034

I am not sure if that's an old one or not - but Harmony were recently relaunched and cost a fair bit of money. The original ones were questionable, though I think there are sought-after models. They kind of remind me of the vintage Kays and things like that. By the 80s, they weren't very nice, that's for sure.
 
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I am not sure if that's an old one or not - but Harmony were recently relaunched and cost a fair bit of money. The original ones were questionable, though I think there are sought-after models. They kind of remind me of the vintage Kays and things like that. By the 80s, they weren't very nice, that's for sure.
Just found this
'Wilkenfeld played an early-60s Harmony H22 hollowbody bass on Under The Sun'
Probably had a luthier make it right.
 
I am not sure if that's an old one or not - but Harmony were recently relaunched and cost a fair bit of money. The original ones were questionable, though I think there are sought-after models. They kind of remind me of the vintage Kays and things like that. By the 80s, they weren't very nice, that's for sure.

Harmony guitars (and basses) were made in Chicago until 1975 when the company went out of business. Very much akin to Kay, etc. After '75 the name was bought and used on Asian imports - still sold via J.C. Penny's but not at all the same as the earlier ones.
 
You can also just shave enough tape off the back end of the string that it touches the bridge metal securely, then as long as you touch the bridge you’ll be good. Of course it depends on your playing style whether that functionally fixes things for you
No, don’t. The wrap will unravel.

I’ve been using D’Addario tapes for 15 years and never had an issue with noise.
 
On my bass, the noise was caused by the ambient electronic noise in the room. Computers, monitors, wifi, even radio signals, etc. Shielding all of the cavities and the back of the pickguard with copper tape, and making sure it was all grounded took care of 95% of it. Significantly quieter now.

Note that some rooms/buildings, even outlets for the amp can have different results to noise. For example, one bar we used to play was terrible for noise, but if I switched sides of the stage with the guitarist, it was somewhat better. Another bar down the street had no noise at all.

The other issue with tapes is that you aren't grounded to the bass when you touch the strings. Often just touching the strings will quiet the buzz a bunch, but with tapes, that isn't possible.
 
It's not a problem until it is a problem... Have played a couple rooms with funky old wiring where tapes (or other coated strings) were quite noisy (and a separate issue from shielding). Ball ends making contact is less the issue than that the strings are insulated from the player.... Easy way to test if the ball end is making grounding contact with the bridge is to just touch the corresponding tuning machine - ground should complete through the core, etc. Yes, string through body would rely on the uninsulated string itself making contact with the bridge rater than just the ball end.

Roger Sadowsky on the issue - he's talking coated strings but all the same applies to tapes:

Coated Strings: The Uncoated Truth
Roger Sadowsky

Over the last several years, there has been a proliferation of “coated” strings on the market. Beginning with Elixir strings, almost every string manufacturer has begun to offer coated strings. Some of these coatings are advertised to offer longer string life and smoother feel, while others are strictly cosmetic (ie: colored strings).

Unfortunately, it appears that most of these manufacturers do not have a clue about how electric instruments work and the effect that some of these coatings have on the performance of electric guitars and basses. Let me explain:

Over the last several years, I have had players contact me regarding noise or grounding problems. They were experiencing a hum that was new to them. So I would take them through the following trouble-shooting procedure:

RS: Plug your bass or guitar into your amp so you can hear the hum you are dealing with.

Player: OK.

RS: Touch the strings and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: No, it doesn’t.

RS: Touch the plug where your cable plugs into your instrument and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: Yes, it does.

RS: Touch the bridge and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: Yes, it does.

RS: Touch the strings and tell me if the hum goes away.

Player: No, it doesn’t

RS: Are you using coated strings?

Player: Yes, I am.

RS: Switch back to uncoated strings and let me know what happens.

Player(s): [In every instance, the hum goes away with uncoated strings.]

So, what have we learned from this troubleshooting? Almost every electric guitar and bass has a “string ground.” This is a wire that usually resides under the bridge and runs to the control cavity of the instrument. The wire is stripped under the bridge, making direct contact with the metal bottom of the bridge.The other end of the wire is connected to a “ground” point in the control cavity. When the player touches the strings or the bridge of the instrument, the player’s body completes connecting the instrument to “ground” and the extraneous hum goes away. On a properly shielded instrument, shielding will remove 90% of the hum that goes away by grounding the instrument, but a string ground is still necessary, especially under difficult conditions like stage lighting and old building wiring.

The problem is that the coated strings are mostly NON-CONDUCTIVE. The result of this is that the coated strings defeat the function of the string ground and cause hum problems for the player.

Recently, a popular bass magazine published a review of a coated string on the market. I wrote a letter to the editor discussing this issue and the fact that the reviewed coated strings were nonconductive.I said that string makers who use non-conductive coating should be required to put a warning label on their packaging that says “these strings are non-conductive and may increase electronic hum and noise.” The response I received from the editor was: “Is this something you’d feel comfortable with printing on the letters page of the magazine? Might be a tricky one, though – not looking to start any quarrels…”

After two issues passed without my letter being printed, I realized at that point that bowing at the altar of advertiser dollars was more important than telling the truth.

I took it upon myself to test all the brands of coated strings on the market and make my results available to the public. Fortunately, Bass Gear Magazine agreed to publish this information. Strings are tested with an analog ohm meter set to RX1K ohms.One probe is placed on coated wrap near the ball end of the string… the other probe on a coated portion on the opposite end of the string. The meter will go to “zero” if the string is conductive.

Based upon my tests, only two string brands employed coatings which proved to be conductive: Clear tone and D’Addario. Both of these brands use a coating that is very thin and undetectable. Their coatings are conductive, and get the Sadowsky seal of approval.

Based upon my tests, the following string brands (in alphabetical order) employed coatings which proved to be non-conductive: DR, Elixir, Ernie Ball, GHS and Rotosound.

Conclusion: I can only recommend using conductive coated strings made by Clear tone and D’Addario. All of the other companies should, in my professional opinion, discontinue these coatings or put a warning on their packages disclosing that their coatings are non-conductive and may cause hum problems with electric instruments.
Good info but missing one very important option, possibly the most popular tape string on the market - La Bella Black Tape wound strings.

I have not used the other strings that Roger noted would fail, but I have used La Bella Blacks (and whites) on numerous basses without ever getting a hint of hum or RF interference or grounding noise. This includes my Fender American Deluxe Jazz five with string through body ferrules and single coil pickups.

I've had perfect results on short scale, long scale, humbucker, single coil, active, passive, four and five string basses, thru body stringing, bridge stringing and hard tail stringing. No issues what so ever with the La Bella strings.

Before I went to all the trouble to run extra grounding wires or shielding I'd just recommend changing strings to La Bella or as Roger suggests to Clear Tone or D'Addario.
 
Good info but missing one very important option, possibly the most popular tape string on the market - La Bella Black Tape wound strings.

I have not used the other strings that Roger noted would fail, but I have used La Bella Blacks (and whites) on numerous basses without ever getting a hint of hum or RF interference or grounding noise. This includes my Fender American Deluxe Jazz five with string through body ferrules and single coil pickups.

I've had perfect results on short scale, long scale, humbucker, single coil, active, passive, four and five string basses, thru body stringing, bridge stringing and hard tail stringing. No issues what so ever with the La Bella strings.

Before I went to all the trouble to run extra grounding wires or shielding I'd just recommend changing strings to La Bella or as Roger suggests to Clear Tone or D'Addario.

I like the La Bella white tapes in particular but have experienced the issue with them and believe the wrap to be non-conductive. It's not an issue much of the time with an otherwise well shielded bass and I've only had it be a problem in certain environments.
 
That’s always mystified me, why you get buzz in some situations that goes away when you touch the strings. Electric physics stuff is weird. I haven’t heard a really satisfactory explanation. I haven’t had buzzing for a long time so I guess I’d be good to go for tapes and coated!

It sounds like making sure the ball ends of the tapes are in electrical contact with the bridge and the rest helps but probably doesn’t solve everything always.
 
Silvertone was a SEARS brand sold up until 1972 and then after that Sam Ash bought the name I believe?
Nerd or not, there were a lot of budding guitarists/bassists playing those nerdy guitars despite any stigma. :woot:

Just never knew JC Penney had a brand as well. Thanks to @Eddie LeBlanc for this tid bit of knowledge.:thumbsup:

We now return to our regularly scheduled program, er, uh post......:smug:

i do need to point out that Sears was a reseller, not a manufacturer, and while they owned the name Silvertone, they did not own the company that made them as opposed to Gibson, or Fender.
 
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I have D’Addario tapes on a P Bass copy, it's not even a "name" bass but it doesn't have the noise issues that I've seen written about many times here.
After seeing an old photo of it when I first got it, I saw it was made by Starr Guitars, before that I thought it was a cheap P Bass copy because it had a MDF body. I know because I sanded off all the finish including the headstock branding when I was 17 and refinished it.
I think that if even a cheaply put together Bass isn't affected, there must be some grounding issues with the basses which are noisy. I recently took the bridge off of my Bass and swapped it for another bridge from another Bass I have, the copper wire underneath was clearly making contact with bridge, maybe that is what's not happening with the noisy ones.