Tapered strings and inharmonicity

[Afc70]

I absolutely agree that tapered strings get really “warbly” as you described, especially up past 12th fret. I had 2 Ken smith 5’s, and changed the tapered sets out for a standard set, & i immediately could hear a significant improvement, and I was really pleased with the results. I have a strong dislike for tapered strings, I don’t like anything about them.

 

[trothwell]

Sorry, I have no idea if they're Roto 66s under the nylon wrapping. If I had to guess I would say yes... probably. But the gauges of the metal strings will obviously be much lighter than the listed gauges for the tapewound set.

Well, come to think more about it now, Rotosound's website claims that the 88 strings came out in 1962, and the 66 strings in 1966. Assuming they haven't changed the formula, then the roundwound strings under the tape would have to be something else, probably something they don't sell standalone (at least not any more).

 

[HaphAsSard]

Well, come to think more about it now, Rotosound's website claims that the 88 strings came out in 1962, and the 66 strings in 1966. Assuming they haven't changed the formula, then the roundwound strings under the tape would have to be something else, probably something they don't sell standalone (at least not any more).

Rotosound started making stainless steel roundwounds in 1962, then tweaked their core-to-wrap ratio, following Entwistle's suggestions, in 1966.

EDIT:

1962 brought the earliest version of its signature Swing Bass string, the first round-wound stainless steel bass string, which jolted the market with a clarity and brightness never before heard from the bass guitar. Swing Bass was followed shortly by (...) Tru Bass, the first black nylon bass string, which would be heard on The Beatles’ Abbey Road.
(...) Rotosound’s big break came in 1966, when Entwistle came to James How with a request for a custom set of strings. “He was looking for a bright, twangy sound,” says Jason.
(...) Entwistle spent an afternoon at the Rotosound factory, trying strings as James and his team tweaked them to his specifications. The strings Rotosound emerged with that day became its Swing Bass 66 set, still its most popular bass strings.
(...) Entwistle’s strings produced a “spec”—the diameter of each string as determined by the thickness of the core wire and layers of wrap wire—that Rotosound uses to this day.

https://www.omgmusic.com/pdfs/MTRotosoundOct11Special.pdf

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Well, come to think more about it now, Rotosound's website claims that the 88 strings came out in 1962, and the 66 strings in 1966. Assuming they haven't changed the formula, then the roundwound strings under the tape would have to be something else, probably something they don't sell standalone (at least not any more).

If they're pre-1966 it must be the strings that John Enwistle couldn't use because "the E and A didn't vibrate properly", which lead to the development of the 66s. I suspect they must also have updated the 88s at some point after 1962. If not... well that might explain a few things.

 

[trothwell]

If they're pre-1966 it must be the strings that John Enwistle couldn't use because "the E and A didn't vibrate properly", which lead to the development of the 66s. I suspect they must also have updated the 88s at some point after 1962. If not... well that might explain a few things.

Indeed it might!

 

[red_rhino]

This is just depressing.

Man's inharmonicity to man is only surpassed by his cruelty to amplifiers.

Corollary: I resonate, therefore I am.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

I haven't noticed much of the warbling, but I tend to follow the 'no money above the 5th fret' theory.
I did find a way to adjust how much of the exposed core ends up in front of the bridge.
Not so out of any fear of inharmonicity as the simple fact that as a finger picker, I didn't want to chance picking at the end of the wraps.
My high tech cure was to get some small flat washers just big enough to slide over the windings and small enough to not let the balls of the strings go through them.
By stacking them on the balls you can adjust how much core is exposed.
How many you need depends on bridge design, saddle adjustment to intonate and personal taste.
3 or 4 can make a difference.

 

[superheavyfunk]

I haven't noticed much of the warbling, but I tend to follow the 'no money above the 5th fret' theory.
I did find a way to adjust how much of the exposed core ends up in front of the bridge.
Not so out of any fear of inharmonicity as the simple fact that as a finger picker, I didn't want to chance picking at the end of the wraps.
My high tech cure was to get some small flat washers just big enough to slide over the windings and small enough to not let the balls of the strings go through them.
By stacking them on the balls you can adjust how much core is exposed.
How many you need depends on bridge design, saddle adjustment to intonate and personal taste.
3 or 4 can make a difference.

You got a picture of these tiny washers? I’ve tried using the little numbered cubes that come on labella’s but they were too thick for my needs.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

When I got my F-bass it came with their custom version of Labella Supersteps. While I loved the tone, I noticed a "warbling" sound when I played further up the neck. I figured it was due to this string design, and eventually switched to a standard string. Some googling at the time found others with similar issues, but not many.

I've more recently put a set of Supersteps on a P bass shortly before lending it to a friend. Upon its return, I've again found that this "warbling", especially on the low E above the 12th fret, is just awful.

A quick search today found that someone has done a very extensive study! I learned that this warbling is called inharmonicity, and it is certainly due to the difference in string mass near the bridge:

On inharmonicity in bass guitar strings with application to tapered and lumped constructions - SN Applied Sciences

The relevant summary:



Inharmonicity in general seems like a universally bad thing by definition. My questions are:

Why do only some people seem to notice?
What are the advantages of this string design that make the introduction of this inharmonicity trait worthwhile?

Tapers work out perfectly on a low B. Much more consistent with the other strings. Compared to the standard winds.

 

[crazyBassClown]

Inharmonicity in general seems like a universally bad thing by definition.

Inharmonicity is primarily how you can tell the difference between an electric guitar and a bass playing the same note where their ranges overlap.
It also contributes to a piano sounding like a piano.

Claiming it is universally bad may be a bit of a stretch, and even if it is it's an unavoidable consequence of the physical nature of vibrating strings.

 

[Ekulati]

Inharmonicity is not a new thing. It's actually inherent to some degree in all vibrating strings. That's why piano strings, and temperment, have evolved the way they did.

 

[Kael]

Didn't read the entire thread so if this has been mentioned already, my bad. Tapered cores have the center of the string lower than standard wound strings. This will mean that the string is sitting lower towards the bass. The outer wrapping will be closer to the pickup and you may be experiencing the magnetic pickup pulling on the string producing an out of tune chorus sounding effect. Try raising the tapered core string a bit at the bridge.

 

[MHeardOnBass]

Necro thread but not worth starting a new one. Inharmonicity is a huge pet peeve of mine and I've been through lots of string types/gauges trying to balance fullness of tone and prevention of sharp sounding upper harmonics. The lumped strings idea sounded good, but I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money, especially if they became my "regular string".

I read somewhere that golfer's lead tape can be used to add the extra bit of needed mass on the string near the saddle. I purchased lead tape from amazon that was 1/4 inch wide. After some trial and error, I found that 2 one inch strips placed next to one another on the B string, and 1 one inch strip on the E string significantly improved (read: nearly eliminated) the unpleasant overtones. Think strings will still get 'thumpier" as you go up in register, but now at least they don't sound sharp as well.

Tried on a 34" bass with DR Hi Beam 120 - 100 - 80 - 60 - 40.

 

[superheavyfunk]

Necro thread but not worth starting a new one. Inharmonicity is a huge pet peeve of mine and I've been through lots of string types/gauges trying to balance fullness of tone and prevention of sharp sounding upper harmonics. The lumped strings idea sounded good, but I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money, especially if they became my "regular string".

I read somewhere that golfer's lead tape can be used to add the extra bit of needed mass on the string near the saddle. I purchased lead tape from amazon that was 1/4 inch wide. After some trial and error, I found that 2 one inch strips placed next to one another on the B string, and 1 one inch strip on the E string significantly improved (read: nearly eliminated) the unpleasant overtones. Think strings will still get 'thumpier" as you go up in register, but now at least they don't sound sharp as well.

Tried on a 34" bass with DR Hi Beam 120 - 100 - 80 - 60 - 40.

Can you show us a picture of this? It’s difficult to picture based just on the explanation you’ve shared.

Also, what is golfers lead tape?

 

[MHeardOnBass]

Can you show us a picture of this? It’s difficult to picture based just on the explanation you’ve shared.

Also, what is golfers lead tape?

You're right - I didn't word that well. Here are some pics. Note that the tape wrapped around the strings is ~1 inch long.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

You can achieve something similar by adding a spacer to the ball end of the string. You’re essentially shortening (or even removing altogether) the taper by moving more ‘string mass’ between the nut and the saddle.

you can experiment (like the lead tape) with different spacer lengths. Works on EB or ABG, cheap, easy, and reversible.