Double Bass TC Electronic BG250-208 Anyone tried?

[rickwolff]

I used to have a BG250 115 which was a decent amp. I just played through a friends 115 at rehearsal today using my EDM-2 and it sounded nice. I'm intrigued by the new 208 they just came out with. 250 watts and only 25 pounds. I had bought and re-sold a PJB Bass Cub, really a cute little amp at only 13 pounds but just too limited for what it could do. I'm going to go to GC and try out the 208 and a couple powered speakers (like the Mackie DLM8 that Adrian Cho seems to be so enamored of these days). Has anyone else tried the 208 yet? I know there is a lot of talk on the BG side but I'm only (or primarily) interested in how it might work with DB. I'm looking at these as a relatively inexpensive 'backup' to my Super Flight Case.

 

[Ric Vice]

I used to have a BG250 115 which was a decent amp. I just played through a friends 115 at rehearsal today using my EDM-2 and it sounded nice. I'm intrigued by the new 208 they just came out with. 250 watts and only 25 pounds........ I'm going to go to GC and try out the 208 and a couple powered speakers (like the Mackie DLM8 that Adrian Cho seems to be so enamored of these days). Has anyone else tried the 208 yet? I know there is a lot of talk on the BG side but I'm only (or primarily) interested in how it might work with DB. I'm looking at these as a relatively inexpensive 'backup' to my Super Flight Case.

Rick
Well, I've owned and liked several 2x8 combos and cabinets.

My first experience with one was buying a SWR Baby Blue 2x8. I hated the head, so I bought one of their Extension Cabinets. With a Walter Woods MI-100-8. The sound was clearer than the 10's, 12's and 15's at that time.

Flite Sound came out with 2x8's that had black aluminum, liquid suspension drivers. They also had a clearer, better defined midrange, and good bass response paired with the Walter Woods.

Later on, I had a LDS 2x8 Three Way custom built for me by Don Oatman. It used B&C Neodymium drivers, and with my Walter Woods MI-400-8 or Electroacoustic Ultra the sound was clear and defined, with excellent bass response.

Most recently, I purchased a used Euphonic Audio VL 208 with 2X8" Eminence (Kevlar impregnated) Drivers. That cabinet is incredible, as it's a 5 way system with two drivers, two mid range, and one tweeter, in a D Appolito configuration, where the tweeter is placed in between the two midrange speakers mounted vertically alongside the two 8" drivers.

The current state of the art 8" drivers are manufactured by Fatial. They were used in Mike Arnopol's Crazy 8 and 88.

Whether or not the TC 250 with 2x8's is any better than a 12 or 15, depends far more on it's design and execution than the 2x8's. That said, to my ears, there's something quite pleasing about a well built 2x8 with double bass. The reason they have continued to sound better and better, has a lot to do with the advancements in speaker technology and cabinet design. The Baby Blue used a rear ported Bag End 8" that sounds very good, but it's a far cry from the Fatial 8PR 200's. I guess if I were going with a 2x8 I'd have someone build me a Crazy 88 and buy a head to go with it.

Ric

 

[laklandplayer]

I bought one at gc, loved it but had to return it. When I played low notes, at any volume, the signal would distort as the note decayed. I tightened the speakers because I thought it was an air leak, it wasn't. I checked out the 1-12 at gc and it did the same thing but worse. Maybe a bad run of amps? The tone prints were off. The amps did it regardless of bass active or passive. I'm sick about it.

 

[Ric Vice]

I bought one at gc, loved it but had to return it. When I played low notes, at any volume, the signal would distort as the note decayed. I tightened the speakers because I thought it was an air leak, it wasn't. I checked out the 1-12 at gc and it did the same thing but worse. Maybe a bad run of amps? The tone prints were off. The amps did it regardless of bass active or passive. I'm sick about it.

One of Ampeg's last gasps ,before Loud bought the company,was a scaled down, single channel, combo version of the Portabass amplifier, with 2x8's. From all accounts, it didn't go over so well. Occasionally, when a company tries a scaled down version of their regular product line, it has startup issues and when it isn't profitable because of those issues, it gets dropped fairly fast. I'm not intimating that the TC 250's are having those issues, but Digital amps have certain challenges, that are unique to their designs. What I've learned from all the 2x8 cabinets I've owned, is that the drivers themselves have to be well made, and are usually more expensive.


Ric

P.S. Trace Eliot tried to build the TAB 50 and TAB 100 [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] with a very sophisticated front end, but unfortunately the amp had problems with distortion. Sometimes, when try and run out a new design it just doesn't work

 

[rickwolff]

I bought one at gc, loved it but had to return it. When I played low notes, at any volume, the signal would distort as the note decayed. I tightened the speakers because I thought it was an air leak, it wasn't. I checked out the 1-12 at gc and it did the same thing but worse. Maybe a bad run of amps? The tone prints were off. The amps did it regardless of bass active or passive. I'm sick about it.

Thanks for sharing your experience. If I demo the unit at GC I will be sure and look for that. I haven't experienced that with either of the TC 115's I have used. Also, the new BG250 208 is apparently just their BH250 Head attached to the back of a new 2x8 cab. Finding 2 in a row with the same problem always raises a red flag, though, as I said, I had no probs with either 115. If I find that the one I demo is 'clean' on low notes I'll let you know.

Also, thanks Ric Vice, as always for your cogent input.

 

[Don Sibley]

Please let us know. I haven't tried one but I'd be interested in a lite little combo with more headroom than the GK MB150.

Also, let us know about the DLM8.

 

[laklandplayer]

My original tc bg250/115 has no problems at all, I love it.

 

[LM Bass]

I'm a huge TC fan, and I use the RH450 and 112 or 212 all the time. I ordered a 208 combo and it came in last week. I was really disappointed with the sound of the thing, there's just no bottom octave. It might work for double bass at low volumes, but I just found the sound too thin and there wasn't enough oomph there. Really wanted to like it. . .

 

[rickwolff]

I'm a huge TC fan, and I use the RH450 and 112 or 212 all the time. I ordered a 208 combo and it came in last week. I was really disappointed with the sound of the thing, there's just no bottom octave. It might work for double bass at low volumes, but I just found the sound too thin and there wasn't enough oomph there. Really wanted to like it. . .

LM, thanks for the review. It might be the drivers or more likely the cabinet design - it certainly isn't the SIZE of the driver as my PJB Super Flight Case with 5 inch speakers has the biggest low end of anything I've owned. Too bad about the TC - I was really hoping to like it also. You were playing a DB thru it, yes?

 

[Ric Vice]

LM, thanks for the review. It might be the drivers or more likely the cabinet design - it certainly isn't the SIZE of the driver as my PJB Super Flight Case with 5 inch speakers has the biggest low end of anything I've owned. Too bad about the TC - I was really hoping to like it also. You were playing a DB thru it, yes?

Rick,
I think the problem might stem from the fact that their trying to use 5 String electric basses, through a low wattage 2x8 cabinet, with standard 8" drivers. With either my EA VL 208 or LDS 2x8 Three Way, you will get low end distortion from the B String at higher volumes. At the time they were built, the custom Eminence and B&C 8" drivers, used in those two cabinets were the best LF Drivers on the market. The Fatial 8PR 200's that Mike Arnopol used in the Crazy 8 and 88 are the finest 8" Low Frequency Drivers available for bass cabinets. They cost $194.00 each. Claire also builds the NDC8-3 that costs $219.00 each. Since the BG 250 208 only costs $499.00 I seriously doubt if their using either of those speakers. Without a really substantial LF Driver, like the Claire or Fatial you're going to have issues with a 2x8 configuration.

Ric

 

[70sJazz]

I was really interested when I heard about this because I like small cabs with small drivers for most of my gigs. I tried one at Guitar Center last week. I was disappointed, compared to the original Markbass Minimark which I've used for several years.

There wasn't enough bite in the highs for my taste due to the lack of a high frequency driver. And the lows were not extended enough either for what you'd expect for a cab of this size nowadays. So overall I found the tone focused on that low-mid thump area with very limited versatility. Someone who doesn't stray from an old school sound, like a P bass with flats might be into it. It sounded extremely boxy to me. Not sure how it might be with URB, I play electric.

The Minimark is more articulate & extended down low, even with the smaller 6" speakers. I did not A/B them side by side but I'd say they go about the same max volume with extremely different tone. I'll stick with what I have.

 

[Ric Vice]

I was really interested when I heard about this because I like small cabs with small drivers for most of my gigs. I tried one at Guitar Center last week. I was disappointed, compared to the original Markbass Minimark which I've used for several years.

Well, I think that the TC BG 250 208 just kind of missed the mark for some reason.

There wasn't enough bite in the highs for my taste due to the lack of a high frequency driver. And the lows were not extended enough either for what you'd expect for a cab of this size nowadays. So overall I found the tone focused on that low-mid thump area with very limited versatility. Someone who doesn't stray from an old school sound, like a P bass with flats might be into it. It sounded extremely boxy to me. Not sure how it might be with URB, I play electric.

When Markbass first hit Guitar Center here in St. Louis, I gave the Minimark a workout. I could see it working with BG just fine, but it doesn't have enough of an EQ section for Double Bass. If I were going that direction I think that the Phil Jones Briefcase, has better tone controls for Upright. I found the Markbass VLE and VPF filters to be to harsh for DB. The Briefcase is more expensive, but compliments the tone pallet of a Double Bass. Most Markbass amps also have a 500 K Ohm input impedance, where Phil Jones uses a 4.5 Megohm input impedance, that compliments piezo pickups.




Ric

 

[Rosebud]

interesting impressions Ric, glad I read this thread in general I may opt for crazy 88's in the future just becasue if aint broke don't fix it kinda thing, that may be what I need although I was considering the TC208

 

[bigdaddyjsa]

I'm glad I read this thread, but Crap!!, I was hoping to hear better bout that tc 208......sounds like back to the drawing board.....

 

[musicmaxbezanso]

Any new experiences with the TC 208? I'm interested in the potential for double bass as well.

 

[kdrabbit]

I have a 112 and really like it, have not had any low-end distort problems like some of reported. I was going to get the 208 because of the size and external speaker feature but found the 112 for sale and the price was right. Only complaint is the lack of external speaker connection, but I've been able to run the balanced out into a PowerEngine 60 cabinet for and have been happy with the sound.

 

[MrSidecar]

Maybe I'll chime in here-

I have just tried the head version, tc BH-250. And while soundwise it was ok with my MAS26 cabinet (a cab that arguably makes any amp sound better!), I have to say a) that I don't know what to use the (albeit insanely cool- I mean, seriously: Holding a smart phone to your bass pickup and "beam" an effect into the amp's memory looks SO James Bond!) TonPrint feature for, and b) that the amp felt weaker than 250 watts, it felt like being choked off pretty early on by a pretty drastic limiter to protect the amp and speakers. Typical class-D, I suppose, and I read somewhere some opinion that the drastic limiting was a trademark of the amps on the budget side of things... Well, in any case, that limits the use a little, at least if you double on electric.

Best
Sidecar

 

[Triad]

Scuse me guys... a "local" seller has the BG 250 2x8" for special price and free shipping. I'd love to have a 12kg combo but I read very very contrasting opinions about it... some say it's wonderful, some say it's not loud enough and not capable of a decent low end. I'm not into Dub/Reggae sounds but if the cab is too small/cheap I'll look elsewhere...

 

[musicmaxbezanso]

I'm not gonna speak for every owner, but I tried one out at (cringe) GC the other day and I was disappointed. With the disclaimer that it could have been a crappy floor model situation, my impressions were that it was, as you mentioned, lacking in low end, not very powerful, and really underwhelming in terms of tone shaping options. IMHO, YMMV, etc., but for what it's worth, that's what I thought.

 

[Triad]

Thanx... well, I have an SWR Henry Jr cab (4x8") and it sounds nice... I guess the problem is probably the size of the cab or the quality of the woofers. On a 300 bucks combo I wouldn't expect Faital drivers... anyway I'd have the option of sending it back, I'd only pay shipping. But of course wasting the shop employees time isn't nice at all.