Teaching right hand form to a beginner?

[darwin-bass]

I have one student who is unfortunate enough to have a hack for a teacher. :-(

She is a beginner, about 2 months in. She is showing some pretty bad right hand habits and that is the next thing we need to focus on. As a former cello player, she tends to pluck the strings away from the body rather than brushing across their tops parallel to the body. And she'll anchor her right thumb on the top edge of the body when playing the low E string.

Other than simply observing, coaching, demonstrating do any of you true bass instructors have some tips or tricks?

 

[Lobster11]

I'm not an instructor, but I'd suggest teaching her the "floating thumb" technique, in which the thumb lays across the strings "below" the one being plucked. There are many advantages to this technique, but one is that it almost forces you to use rest strokes. Here's a short vid that I learned it from:

 

[bass12]

I would look at what the whole chain - fingers, hand, arm and shoulder - is doing. Are her fingers overly curled (something I've seen in students who pull the strings outward when they pluck)? What part of her fingertip is connecting with the string? Is her shoulder hunched forward? Pulling the hand and/or arm back a little might force her to straighten her fingers enough that clawing at the strings feels less natural than it probably does currently.

You could also have her tap at the strings with fingers extended and gradually move from tapping to soft plucking, just to reinforce the feeling of having her fingers more extended (rather than curled - if that is, in fact, the issue).

I would also give her a sonic reference point, so that she has a sonic goal in mind when plucking the strings (as opposed to thinking in strictly physical terms).

 

[RattleSnack]

I remember I have been told to shape plucking hand like I am holding a ball. I think John Patitucci mentioned same thing in one of his education videos. Anyway, plucking should be movement similar to squeezing that ball, but focused on index or middle finger.
When combined with proper bass height (just like when sitting) and proper angle, this should be best ergonomy for playing bass guitar.

 

[darwin-bass]

Golf ball, baseball, or basketball?

If I think about it from a baseball perspective, I envision the thumb and first fingers holding the ball with the ring and pinky tucked up against the palm. Is that the idea?

 

[RattleSnack]

Golf ball, baseball, or basketball?

If I think about it from a baseball perspective, I envision the thumb and first fingers holding the ball with the ring and pinky tucked up against the palm. Is that the idea?

I think it was tennis ball, with the idea not to collapse hand or any finger.
Also, not to keep index/middle straight, like on DB, because there is no need to pull from elbow/shoulder. You don't need lot of power for bass guitar strings, compared to DB.
This "curled around ball" avoids sharp wrist angle and straight fingers.
I personaly took the wrong path (sharp wrist angle) and it took me long time and lowering bass guitar to get it little better...

Edit:
I found this Patitucci video, it's not the same I watched long ago, but it's the same idea. You can ignore ring and pinky muting strings, that is untypical, he developed it for 6 strings bass.

 

[albertus]

bring out the ruler and hit hard

 

[darwin-bass]

I as thinking of using some athletic tape to bind the thumb against the hand to get her away from the habit af anchoring the thumb in odd places.

 

[Lobster11]

I as thinking of using some athletic tape to bind the thumb against the hand to get her away from the habit af anchoring the thumb in odd places.

Well, I don't think I'd go quite that far, but you could encourage her to experiment with plucking without anchoring her thumb anywhere. Once she realizes that having an anchor isn't really necessary -- except for muting -- you could introduce her to the floating-thumb technique I suggested earlier.

Actually, when I use the floating thumb (which is most of the time) I often let my thumb just hang in the air when I'm playing the E string, and sometimes also the A string, so it's not as crazy an idea as it might seem.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I have one student who is unfortunate enough to have a hack for a teacher. :-( She is a beginner, about 2 months in. She is showing some pretty bad right hand habits and that is the next thing we need to focus on. As a former cello player, she tends to pluck the strings away from the body rather than brushing across their tops parallel to the body. And she'll anchor her right thumb on the top edge of the body when playing the low E string. Other than simply observing, coaching, demonstrating do any of you true bass instructors have some tips or tricks?

It seems to me you're already on the right track of teaching good, useful, and by some sense, proper technique. Observing, coaching and demonstrating are fine tools that all of us "true" bass instructors, or whatever level instructors we are, would and should advocate. Cellos are NOT electric bases, and even upright basses are NOT electric basses (and vice-versa, of course) and each one of those instruments deserves and demands their own unique considerations and approaches. Sooner or later, you and that student will run across passages and idiomatic types of sounds and patterns, that if the player in question is intent on continuing to play electric bass will likely force the player into approaching the instrument differently, and with a different economy of, to say nothing of, necessity of motion.

Aside from both instruments having four strings and even some shared range, it is remarkable how different a cello and electric bass actually are in innumerable ways.

 

[OnlyFlats]

I'd use her phone to video record what her hand is doing when plucking, looking from the bridge up the neck.

Then record another video of the preferred technique from the same position. She can review the videos before playing each time.

However I only focus on technique if it's holding the student back so much that they're getting disenchanted. If their ears have not learnt to discern between cleanly played (and not) notes, then changing technique has no purpose to them.

There are so many variables when learning an instrument, students learn them at their own rate.

 

[mambo4]

I would just regurgitate Adam Neely's advice

 

[vindibona1]

MIRROR!
Teach her the correct way with a mirror present, and have her ONLY practice in front of a mirror.

It is very difficult for people to have a kinesthetic perception of what they are doing. A visual aid is invaluable. If I may cite a personal anecdote...
Around 2008, as a trumpet player, I was stricken with FOCAL DYSTONIA. I went from sounding like a professional to sounding like a 5th grade beginner in about 3 weeks! My face didn't know what to do. My good friend, who is an outstanding trumpet teacher gave me a mirror to clamp onto my lead pipe. It helped me retrain my muscles and re-establish a new set of muscle memories. IT WAS HARD as what my brain told me what I was doing, but my eyes contradicted what I was feeling and told me what I needed to do.

Get a large cheap mirror for your studio so she can sit in front of it, watch you demonstrate, then copy what you do. She needs to learn what to do, and NEVER ALLOW HERSELF TO RETURN TO THE OLD TECHNIQUE THAT SHE CAME WITH.

 

[Geogio]

Keep to the vasics as yhe student orogresses through the method books. Stress alternating, one note grooves with alternating times and note values mixed in through the method. Coordination will come. Stay focused on relaxing. Two handed Finger Drumming on various surfaces builds strength and endurance.

 

[KenSmithFan]

Find her a qualified teacher. Seriously. I don’t teach because I’m not good at it. The best player in the world does a disservice to their student if they aren’t qualified.

Watch a Brent Mason instructional video. One of the best guitar players in the world, but a disaster as a teacher.

 

[SteveCS]

As a former cello player, she tends to pluck the strings away from the body rather than brushing across their tops parallel to the body.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong in playing the strings this way - it produces a more defined attack and imparts a bit more depth and 'complexity' in the timbre. At least she isn't getting all Bartók on you, although that would dodge the thumb anchor problem...

And she'll anchor her right thumb on the top edge of the body when playing the low E string.

This is not so good, but doesn't make sense - for the most part, cellists playing pizz will put the thumb on the edge of the fingerboard, not the body, with the rest of the hand closed up like a fist holding the bow. Perhaps it is the lack of something to hold on to which is encouraging her hand to open up? What happens if you have her hold a pen or AA battery? Obviously not as a permanent solution, but just to help diagnosis and finding a solution.

 

[el murdoque]

When I teach, I usually come up with something for the student.
The basic thing is always the same: You will have to identify the worst mistake the student makes and correct that, then rinse and repeat.
More often than not, minor things disappear when you correct a major thing.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I have one student who is unfortunate enough to have a hack for a teacher. :-(

She is a beginner, about 2 months in. She is showing some pretty bad right hand habits and that is the next thing we need to focus on. As a former cello player, she tends to pluck the strings away from the body rather than brushing across their tops parallel to the body. And she'll anchor her right thumb on the top edge of the body when playing the low E string.

Other than simply observing, coaching, demonstrating do any of you true bass instructors have some tips or tricks?

I don’t know if this will help or not but I then to think of when I play a note, my fingers strum the string as opposed to plucking. Maybe that terminology might help her.

 

[darwin-bass]

Update & Conclusion:

Our original goal was for me to get her started and playing well enough to become part of our church's rotation. She achieved that ahead of schedule and our teaching sessions have ended.

Her right hand has improved simply by her becoming more aware and correcting on her own.

 

[vindibona1]

Here is a different thought that I learned from teaching skiing and killing obnoxiously bad habits: COMPLETELY CHANGE UP THE MOVEMENTS, particuularly the movement sequence.

In this case, the way I would approach the young student would be to teach FLOATING THUMB combined with rest strokes. The floating thumb will break the habit of "anchoring" (IMO an unnecessary habit, even though used by many). The additional focus on the floating thumb is muting the strings with it. The "rest stroke" will change the vector of the pluck because for the plucking fintger to land on the lower string it cannot pluck "up" like on a cello. Lastly, turn the amp way up so that the student figures out how to pluck more lightly. A cello, being an acoustic instrument, needs that oomph to project, while an amplified bass does not.