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Tech21 VT-Bass - where's the magic ?
- Thread starter OldogNewTrick
- Start date
Like Jimmy said, you really need to play with it. Start with the "flat settings" as so many have listed in various threads. I personally think the one screw-up that Tech21 made with this pedal is that they didn't make the noon-settings on the EQ/Character knobs flat. It would make it easier for people to have a starting reference for their setup without changing the voicing of the pedal at all.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,633
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
the new VT pedals also have a speaker sim defeat switch. on the original ones, it's always on. that's why you see the steep freq drop off at 5Khz. IMO, it should have always had one.
But do they still have the sharp peak in the 3-5k range with the speaker sim defeated? That's what I've yet to find out. I can't imagine wanting to have that sharp peak AND the non-attenuated treble on top of that.
I didn't agree at first, but now I do. I liked the sim at first because it kept soundmen from making me sound like Marcus Miller if I was forced to DI. Marcus is a cool guy and I like his music, but that ain't my thang. But there is such a noticeable difference between a speaker sim through a cab and an amp that's running full range that lets the cab cut off those frequencies. It's subtle, but once I picked up on it, I fixate on it like crazy and I can't not notice it.
rpsands said:The VT Deluxe is definitely the pedal of the future. Six channels, all of which can sound completely different and have the FX loop on or off. Pretty sweet.
It's by far the coolest pedal I've ever owned. Definitely changed my attitude toward tailoring my tone to a song.
I've got to agree. I have three distinct sounds from almost clean and flat B15, to on the edge SVT OD, to quite heavy breakup with the Character knob at 3:00. Each of these is at a level that works best in the same mix, and I use the last 3 settings for the same 3 settings with some boost for solo passages or if I need the extra kick.
Just perfect into the board, and I've pretty much tweaked the settings to work with a standard PA with 18" subs and tops with minimal EQ at the board. I've never had better live sound and the rare times I've had a pro sound man they have loved it.
With the speaker sim defeated, you do lose the sharp peak, but you still get a big dropoff after 5kHz, just slightly less steep. Overall it sounds a lot darker with the speaker sim defeated - Tech 21 did this thinking that all amps over-emphasise the treble so toning it down at the pedal would produce a better end result. I'm not convinced!
I don't like what the speaker sim does to fuzz pedals, it sounds too much like a resonant low pass filter, you can really hear that peak. I would want the speaker sim defeat switch to be full range so that my tweeterless cab can provide it's own natural rolloff, but the only way to get that is to have the pedal modded. Tempted to send mine to Mr Putnam even though it's across the pond!
I don't like what the speaker sim does to fuzz pedals, it sounds too much like a resonant low pass filter, you can really hear that peak. I would want the speaker sim defeat switch to be full range so that my tweeterless cab can provide it's own natural rolloff, but the only way to get that is to have the pedal modded. Tempted to send mine to Mr Putnam even though it's across the pond!
I've never once gotten asked to cut bass frequencies with the VT by a soundman. I like that it's a tighter sounding pedal than many. With the BDDI, which I also like, it's very easy to have a sound that's great through a stage rig but is complete mud pie with clanky icing in the PA. I like that the VT at least takes care of the mud part. It can still be a bit clanky in the PA if you aren't careful. That treble peak on the graphs has gotten me in trouble a few times.
I guess I'm just trying to imagine why anyone would want a speaker sim defeat switch if all it's going to do is allow more treble to come through. The eq shape up top has to be different with the defeat on for it to be usable.
I guess I'm just trying to imagine why anyone would want a speaker sim defeat switch if all it's going to do is allow more treble to come through. The eq shape up top has to be different with the defeat on for it to be usable.
Ah, okay that is cool. I'll say it again here on TB then. It would be ideal to me if the VT had a Presence control that adjusted that peak, then let the Treble control adjust the 5k rolloff. That would make the pedal ideal for me without a doubt.
It's great for soundmen when you DI, no doubt. But it's a different dynamic between high and low pass filtering and letting the speaker do it while the amp goes full range. It's like the rolloff is more gradual and less abrupt when the cab does it. It's really splitting hairs, but I do notice it and sometimes wish I didn't have it. Might be time to get a hold of Mike Putnam again. Doesn't he do a speaker sim defeat on the VTD?
Yeah, totally agree with you on this. I think he does a VTD sim defeat. I'm just wondering if his mod will remove the peak also? I like having some aggressive bite in that range. It would be nice to pull that part down a bit while bring the rolloff up.
The VT is such a darn good pedal that hopefully Tech21 will continue to refine it a bit. It's frustrating for me because I can get the perfect top-end response I want out of the BDDI by cutting treble and boosting Presence, but the lows and mids are occasionally not ideal. With the VT, lows and mids are always perfect, but the top end is hard to get right.
I guess there are worse problems to have.
I just keep telling myself they never upgraded the original VT Bass so I don't convince myself to upgrade. Because I dig the sound I get in my setup, and looking back at it, it probably is adjusted around the default speaker sim but I've got it nailed. That tweaky little pedal takes some getting used to but once you do its fantastic... I generally tweak my VT on the fly rather than my amp's EQ. Amp is running fairly flat.
The only reason I ever tweak it though is because of the treble. If I could get that nailed then the the rest is easy. I love every other thing about it. I'm thinking the speaker sim defeat would take it to far in the other direction which wouldn't really help me, but instead just give me one more thing I'd have to try to tweak myself out of.
And yes, Jimmy - I'd love an SVT if someone would carry it for me! But even that wouldn't help me most of the time. I do in-ear gigs, so I'd have to have an isolation room back stage and the right stuff to mic it up also. Just not practical at all, though I did consider picking up a B15 for this, along with an iso-cab.
And yes, Jimmy - I'd love an SVT if someone would carry it for me! But even that wouldn't help me most of the time. I do in-ear gigs, so I'd have to have an isolation room back stage and the right stuff to mic it up also. Just not practical at all, though I did consider picking up a B15 for this, along with an iso-cab.
From what I've heard, I think that the version 2 sim defeat does more EQ wise than just allowing more treble. And it doesn't sound the same as the sim defeat on my personally modded original VT Bass pedal. One of these days I'd like to compare mine with version 2.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,633
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
you can set the controls to get the original VT pedal pretty flat (see RTA chart below):
there's NO 5KHz peak at that setting.
this is how mine's knobs look when set like that:
AFAIK, the speaker sim basically rolls off the highs. i researched it and found out how to mod one to bypass the the sim circuit but when i took it apart, all those tiny surface mount components made it look like a big hassle to do it so i just put it back together without doing it. i do know that if you bypass the speaker sim completely, it raises the overall gain of the pedal, so you'd also might want to add a trim pot to the bypass switch to match the gain with and without it.
there's NO 5KHz peak at that setting.
this is how mine's knobs look when set like that:
AFAIK, the speaker sim basically rolls off the highs. i researched it and found out how to mod one to bypass the the sim circuit but when i took it apart, all those tiny surface mount components made it look like a big hassle to do it so i just put it back together without doing it. i do know that if you bypass the speaker sim completely, it raises the overall gain of the pedal, so you'd also might want to add a trim pot to the bypass switch to match the gain with and without it.
For an IEM gig where you want honest to goodness real Ampeg tone with no compromise, I'd look into the REDDI. Straight up DI with a tube and actual power and output transformers. More expensive than the VT yes, but does a dead-on cop of a clean B-15 set flat and run through a speaker out DI. Not a simulation but the real thing. Done two gigs on mine and became a royal tube snob again and lost all desire to use a cab mic, and can't stand to use anything but my tube Ampegs as a monitor because I get jealous of the crowd. Yeah, it's expensive and heavy as far as DI's go, but it's so noticeably better to anyone with half an ear.
All respect to the VT, but you really can tell the difference. 2d vs 3d, except this is a 3d that isn't annoying and requires stupid glasses.
Geez, didn't know that the VT had that kind of gradual rolloff on its speaker sim. Well I guess I'm wrong about it not being gradual like cabs. All I know is I can tell a difference in my B-15 when it's on and when it's off, and for clean tones, I greatly prefer it off. Not soured on the VT by any means, just putting all this sim stuff in perspective now that I'm embracing my tube snobbishness once again.
you can set the controls to get the original VT pedal pretty flat (see RTA chart below):
There are also other settings to reach flat.
The Drive does nothing to Flat, it just at harmonic overtones, compression and clipped distortion.
Since the Character and the Mids operate at the same frequency range, you get also a clean flat without the added overtones of the Character.
Lows 12 Highs 10 Mids at 3 Character at 9 and Drive also at 9.
Clean flat setting, my favourite tone.
