Double Bass Tension - Spiro Weich vs Jargar Dolce vs Evah Weich - the figures

[Clarkybass]

I have been searching in vain to get hold of tension measurements for 'light' strings other than Spirocores so that I can make some sort of comparison (I have a damaged left hand and need light tension) and thought this might be useful - the figures from Jargar and Pirastro came direct from the manufacturer today and I have converted them into pounds (using 2.2 pound per kg)

Spiro Weich 3/4 set
E 66.1
A 63.9
D 61.7
G 60.6

Jargar Dolce
E 68.9
A 59.6
D 57.4
G 56.3

Evah Pirazzi Weich
E 63.4
A 64.0
D 61.4
G 56.1

I was surprised that the Evah Weichs come in lighter than the Spiros as most threads on TalkBass seem to think Evah Weichs are between Spiro Weich and Mittel in tension. Probably goes to show that other factors are at play, including the type of string core, diameter etc, not just tension, in assessing the 'feel' of a string

 

[Kai Sanchez]

Maybe the general consensus is that Evah Weichs are in between Spiro Weichs 4/4 and Spiro Mittels 4/4 tension wise.

 

[Francois Blais]

I'm surprised by the Jargar Dolces numbers.
What mensur? 110cm?
Tuned at orchestra pitch?

 

[Clarkybass]

Regarding the Jargar dolce figures, I specifically asked the company for tension for a 3/4 bass tuned orchestral so that it would compare with the published data on Spiro Weich but they did not include the mensure in their answer. The actual figures provided were in kp, as follows:


E 31,33 kp
A 27,10 kp
D 26,10 kp
G 25,58 kp

With Pirastro, they stated the figures were for a 3/4 bass with 106cm mensure

 

[iiipopes]

Somewhere I have a thread or two where I take every Spiro set that will fit on a standard 3/4 bass and derive the tensions as if they are all tuned to standard pitch on a 106cm/41 3/4" mensure. Look down the thread for the corrected table, because I had to correct a couple of figures after I initially posted. Then if any other manufacturer posts, then you can compare directly, or if all you have are generalized comments, which are all you can get when the manufacturers don't post figures, then you can compare indirectly and approximately.

HOWEVER, tension is not the be-all-end-all. It is but one factor. "Feel" will depend as much on flexibility, the tendency of a string to "roll," and other factors than just tension. Most importantly, a good setup with the proper height, contour and spacing at the nut and bridge, scoop, if any, to the fingerboard, sound post placement and afterlength adjustment, to match the instrument to the player and the repertoire, will do more to make a set of strings feel good, and more importantly, sound good, than just lessening tension.

 

[Clarkybass]

Presumably the inherent volume of the strings makes a difference too. I had an ancient set of Jargars lying around (which were on my 60s Baby Bass for years) and tried them on my 3/4 bass this week. They are quiet relative to (say) Velvet strings (as a result of the internal dampening that makes them sound more thumpy and less sustaining) and thus, to be heard in a non-amplified environment, I need to pluck Jargar dolce's harder. Which of course partly negates the benefit of the lower tension, at least for my right hand.

 

[labravajazz]

I don't have the figures but Spiro or Superflexible Solo sets tuned to concert are way easier on the hands.
These were personally recommended to me by Eugene Wright who said Al McKibbon and. Percy Heath always have uSed them.
Note, they were all gut string players in the day and wanted metal strings with lower tension.
Note, also they each got an awesome sound!

 

[Champagne]

Clarky,

When's the last time you had your bass to a luthier? The reason I am asking is if you had some relief taken out of the fingerboard, the bass as a whole with the same strings would feel less tight. A raised saddle can do this too as well as moving the tail piece, but the board, i believe is a major factor. One of my bass's boards is flatter than the other and the exact same strings are on both. The flatter board makes the strings and playability feel much less tight. The bass with more relief feels very stiff and is much harder on my left hand (sometimes cramps).

If your injury is a chronic one, I would strongly consider this too for the health of your left hand.

 

[Clarkybass]

Thanks Champagne, actually my bass is only just back from the luthier in the past couple of weeks (as I managed to collapse my bridge when I swapped over to some super-fat, low tension Gut-a-like strings, doh!). He planed my board as well as fixing other issues (bridge, some seams that needed re-gluing etc). I broke several bones in my left hand three years ago and this has resulted recently in episodic discomfort (likely exacerbated by a recent diagnosis of gout). Right now I am using Velvet Blues and a gut G and this is very comfortable. The Jargars I tried were actually pretty comfortable too but were just too lacking in volume for me.

 

[Champagne]

Ha! I have blues on both my basses! After I wrote you, I picked up both of them and played.

I haven't had weichs on these basses, but the easier playing bass I had a full set of obligatos and a mix obligato bottom 2 followed by a Spiro weich d and Spiro mitt g. The obligatos were a little looser feeling. I moved to blues for string life and closer arco sound string to string. The different sets did sound good and I enjoyed the sound though the blues have a larger and lower fundamental.

You could also ask your luthier, if you haven't already, about lighter strings since they know your bass personally. Theres only so much we can gather from this thread without knowing your bass personally. I'm guessing you mentioned to them your hand injury when they planed your board?

Sorry about your hand and gout. I hope they both lay off you so you can enjoy yourself, bass and music.

 

[Clarkybass]

Thanks for your kind comments! Am seeing specialist doc next week who has indicated that a damaged finger joint (the one that gives me most grief) may need a steroid injection which should settle it down. I am optimistic and the current set-up on my bass (low action, Blues/gut) works well for me

Anyway I hope the string measurements in my OP are useful to some people. I know that I searched TalkBass and various other bass websites/blogs without finding the answers so putting them in one thread seemed a sensible thing to do - even if, as correctly pointed out in this thread, tension alone is just one variable in the feel and playability of strings

 

[iiipopes]

I don't have the figures but Spiro or Superflexible Solo sets tuned to concert are way easier on the hands.
These were personally recommended to me by Eugene Wright who said Al McKibbon and. Percy Heath always have uSed them.
Note, they were all gut string players in the day and wanted metal strings with lower tension.
Note, also they each got an awesome sound!

It depends on which set. There are at least seven different Spiros sets, 3/4 in weich & mittel & solo, and 4/4 weich, mittel, stark & solo, and three Superflexible sets, 3/4, 4/4 and solo, which can be mounted on a standard 3/4 106cm / 41 3/4 inch mensure bass.

 

[iiipopes]

Regarding the Jargar dolce figures, I specifically asked the company for tension for a 3/4 bass tuned orchestral so that it would compare with the published data on Spiro Weich but they did not include the mensure in their answer. The actual figures provided were in kp, as follows:


E 31,33 kp
A 27,10 kp
D 26,10 kp
G 25,58 kp

With Pirastro, they stated the figures were for a 3/4 bass with 106cm mensure

Multiply each of those numbers by 2.2 to get the equivalent tension in pounds.

 

[iiipopes]

As I recall, Velvet blues are @ 25 kp, or 55 lbs. of tension per string. When the Velvet Blues E string dies, There are at least two different Spiro E strings that have a similar light tension to match the Velvet blues A and D strings: either of the two solo E strings, 3/4 or 4/4.