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That classic tube sound.

#145
BurningSkies said:
Eh. I'm over all tube. A really well designed and implemented high voltage tube preamp with a lightweight power amp sounds just as good if not better to me. And that's from a guy who's used and owned plenty of all tube bass and guitar amps over the years. :) I can have the best parts of the tube's tone, without power stage breakup, distortion or compression and without the weight.
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I want to learn and I like to learn so please. This is not a snotty question but really, I want to learn more.

Isn't a tube pre-amp to a solid state power amp a bastard tube amp and a joke?

I mean, isn't the thing that makes a tube amp a tube amp the power tubes? (not pre-amp tubes?)

So like, I'm thinking that a solid state pre-amp to a tube power amp is perhaps Kosher but a tube pre-amp to a solid state power amp is not Kosher.

But of course...........a tube pre-amp and a tube power amp is what it's all about!

Help me out, please!
 
#146
bassdude51 said:
I want to learn and I like to learn so please. This is not a snotty question but really, I want to learn more.

Isn't a tube pre-amp to a solid state power amp a bastard tube amp and a joke?

I mean, isn't the thing that makes a tube amp a tube amp the power tubes? (not pre-amp tubes?)

So like, I'm thinking that a solid state pre-amp to a tube power amp is perhaps Kosher but a tube pre-amp to a solid state power amp is not Kosher.

But of course...........a tube pre-amp and a tube power amp is what it's all about!

Help me out, please!
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Not at all. I want all of the 3 dimensional tube complexity, those supernaturally beautiful moments that you get from tubes...and I too always thought that that magic was in the power section.

The first amp I had in high school was an SVT. Stolen from the local high school (a gift from a friend, later returned by me). Since then I've also had a Mesa 400+ and also own/ed a number of other tube amps, (Kalamazoo bass 30, 135w Fender Twin, Princeton, Vibrochamp, etc.). I know what they do and what they sound like. When I play a purely solid state amp, I miss that rich/complex 'extra' of tubes. 99% of hybrid amps also suck for tube tone. They NEVER have that extra dimension.

But what I discovered was that there are a couple wonderfully made tube preamps that are ALL tube signal path and are properly high voltage to feed the tubes properly and feature some combination of transformers. They provide all of that magic...without a tube power section.

To me, one of the problems with tube amps is keeping them clean so I can hear the detail in that awesome luscious tone without things getting swampy, or too hot, or distorted or overly compressed. A huge-ass solid state power amp fused with a high quality tube front end gives me the best idealized tube amp. Imagine a B-15 that doesn't distort when you push it, or when you turn it up just gets louder and louder without compressing. Or imagine a Fender Bassman, but one that sounds clean and clear and with that beautiful chime that well designed Fender amps have...but louder than an SVT. And none of the complexity lost. And in a rack that I can carry with one hand.
 
#147
Mr. Foxen said:
Once you have the desired colour from the amp, the uncoloured nature of SS preserves what is there.
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+1.

This is also why when we've been discussing a newly minted tube preamp it was mentioned running it through a bass amp's front end and a few of us suggested 'over my dead body'...unless you can find a gain stage that IS clean and uncolored. I want my tone to be intact before someone else's idea of a tone curve. Tubes but LOUDER. is what you should get from a decent PA or amp setup with solid state involved.
 
#149
I think there are a couple different types of "tube heads".
Some folks want an all tube head because they believe it delivers a better fidelity than solid state amps can.
Some folks want an all tube head precisely because of how it sounds when abused. They like compression, distortion and non-linearity.
As far as all the tube+solidstate ideas, it seems that most manufacturers can not resist the temptation to run the tubes at lower than normal voltages, or use solidstate eq after the tube preamp.
 
#150
Calaverasgrande said:
I think there are a couple different types of "tube heads".
Some folks want an all tube head because they believe it delivers a better fidelity than solid state amps can.
Some folks want an all tube head precisely because of how it sounds when abused. They like compression, distortion and non-linearity.
As far as all the tube+solidstate ideas, it seems that most manufacturers can not resist the temptation to run the tubes at lower than normal voltages, or use solidstate eq after the tube preamp.
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I agrees. All of the 'hybrid' bass heads out there give the concept a bad name. It never feels right. I recently tried a tube preamp that had all of the trademark feel and tone of a fully tube amp...and had no power tubes. ;)
 
#152
Um, I think we need to separate stuff like Skies is talking about from solid state. It is definitely NOT solid state in any form except for the power amp. The stuff he uses has an output transformer, so that elevates it more into the tube realm than the SS realm. And I'm down with it...I even own a REDDI tube DI my own self and love it.

As for micing cabs, it varies a great deal what pros do. Some blend, some don't. I never blended when I was using a cab mic. Never felt the need to, either, although a handful of whiny incompetent soundmen tried to insist that I use a DI and have even resorted to subterfuge.

But I love tube amps, always have, and I will continue to use them, and it's not important to me that any of you "get it."
 
#153
JimmyM said:
Um, I think we need to separate stuff like Skies is talking about from solid state. It is definitely NOT solid state in any form except for the power amp. The stuff he uses has an output transformer, so that elevates it more into the tube realm than the SS realm. And I'm down with it...I even own a REDDI tube DI my own self and love it.

As for micing cabs, it varies a great deal what pros do. Some blend, some don't. I never blended when I was using a cab mic. Never felt the need to, either, although a handful of whiny incompetent soundmen tried to insist that I use a DI and have even resorted to subterfuge.

But I love tube amps, always have, and I will continue to use them, and it's not important to me that any of you "get it."
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Yeah, I think you have the same thing going with the REDDI, it for all intents and purposes sounds like a tube amp from the DI. I was floored the first time I had one of "those" moments with the Kern. It distracted me and I lost my time for a second. Luckily it was at rehearsal, and I only got funny looks from the band. Having a token 12AX7 in your amp doesn't do it. I like the new GB Streamliner, and I think it does a damn good approximation of the overall sound....but I haven't had one of those epiphanal moments out of one.

If you guys end up coming through in the next year or so (maybe state fair time), let me know and I'll roll out the Monique for you, or you can come by and try out the Kern/Monique/fEARfuls...
 
#155
Try to remember that there aren't many stadium PAs with tube power amps.
I'm with Skies if the amp is neutral which hi end SS amps can do why not use a serious full voltage preamp into a SS amp.
I didn't think our sound goals were possible until Summit unleashed the TD-100. It really heats that 12ax7. The Kern makes buttery tube tone. All other pres to me fell short. Again play something with a fully powered tube and decide.
Along came the Monique. It's like power tubes with no limit on clear volume.
I'm no initiate at this. I've gigged Fender to Hiwatts, SVTs, Sunn 2000s to Marshall's to Reeves.
When you get them loud they're great. After that when the tubes break up you lose the stage that amplifies the rest. Some love it right there.
All choice. Some of us want huge tube tone but clearly represented.
 
#156
BurningSkies said:
See? That's why I like you...
falling_down.jpg


You're just like meeeee....
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Love that movie - heading off to the Whammy Burger right now to get some breakfast. ;)
 
#157
edbass said:
You just need more amp.

C400StockPhoto.jpg


There is tonally no true substitute for a tube output stage whether or not you prefer squeeky clean or hairy.
To me it's like the difference between butter and margarine; while some folks actually prefer the taste of Oleo, and while there is no denying some of the practical advantages, it just ain't the same.

I'm a butter/real mayonaise/all tube man myself. ;)
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Back in the day, I used to rock a pair, thats right, a pair - 800 watts - of DB728's, and it was indeed a pleasant experience. Here's a shot of when I was still in the process of assembling the 12x12 wall of doom. Only ten 12's in this shot, but ya get the idea. :bassist:



DSC02203.jpg



Edit, found a pic with all 12 12's cause I know ya didn't believe me. Sadly, most of this herd is gone now. :(


DSC01274.jpg
 

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