How loud do you need to get? I'd say just go with a lower powered tube head. Maybe the Ampeg v4, or an Alphabass as mentioned above. you could look at the Fender 100T, or an older Trace Elliott, or a....the quest begins. LOL
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That elusive "perfect" bass tone
- Thread starter groovaholic
- Start date
The problem is nothing I have played through compares to my c400. its not about volume, its presence. Even at low volumes nothing else has had the depth that this amp does. I understand why they stopped making it, its eff'ing heavy. Its discontinuation has nothing to do with the tone though.
- Jun 29, 2006
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Don't neglect the contribution of pickups, strings, and your cabs. All will play a big part it what you are describing, and getting all of the aspects of the signal chain dialed in is the key to that last 5-10% - once you do that, you can get your dream tones with a reasonable variety of gear, IMO/IME.
The tubeworks units are only about one third tube. I find they sound kinda fizzy compared to purely tube overdrive. I did really like mine on guitar when I still had it. It sat in a mix really well, but sounded awful soloed.
But to be fair the Bass 400/400+ have transistors in the graphic eq, so they aren't 100% tube either!
As far as the big old Mesa heads go, mine certainly get more mushy and indistinct if we jam more than 2 or 3 hours. I think it's a heat buildup or something. It sounds amazing in a way, but when you are trying to be fast and technical with a bit of overdrive it can sound kind of blurry.
The 400+ is a VERY nice amp, and in terms of build-quality I think it has the Classic 400 beat. And this is NOT a slam on the Mesa -- I've owned two and LOVE how they sound.
But in terms of real, gut-rumbling, sternum-compressing BASS? No, the Peavey Classic 400 is the most gnarly amp I have ever heard. Also, the Peavey is running an OCTET of 6550s (or better yet KT88s) at 675 VDC and puts out an honest-to-God 400 watts CLEAN.
The Mesa, with a dozen fixed-bias 6L6GC will maybe do 300 watts, but doesn't go NEARLY as low as the Classic -- nothing does.
That much LF extension is addictive to some (myself, CL400Peavey) and troublesome to others.
And the weight of the Classic 400 is NO JOKE--if the sound of the amp doesn't make you feel all warm and tingly inside, don't even CONSIDER buying one.
It is a back-breaking, tendon-straining labor of love to bring that beast to a show, but whenever I have, people notice it!
Heck, every time, the soundman has taken one look at all that glowing glass and the MASSIVE transformers and always, without being asked, put a mic in front of my cab.
But in terms of real, gut-rumbling, sternum-compressing BASS? No, the Peavey Classic 400 is the most gnarly amp I have ever heard. Also, the Peavey is running an OCTET of 6550s (or better yet KT88s) at 675 VDC and puts out an honest-to-God 400 watts CLEAN.
The Mesa, with a dozen fixed-bias 6L6GC will maybe do 300 watts, but doesn't go NEARLY as low as the Classic -- nothing does.
That much LF extension is addictive to some (myself, CL400Peavey) and troublesome to others.
And the weight of the Classic 400 is NO JOKE--if the sound of the amp doesn't make you feel all warm and tingly inside, don't even CONSIDER buying one.
It is a back-breaking, tendon-straining labor of love to bring that beast to a show, but whenever I have, people notice it!
Heck, every time, the soundman has taken one look at all that glowing glass and the MASSIVE transformers and always, without being asked, put a mic in front of my cab.
The Mesa all tube amps are amazing, but they hold no candle to the Classic 400. If I was to bother carrying the weight of any tube amp to a gig, it would be the c400.
+1
Shes a big bitch, but I love her none the less.
Its on my short list of amps to spend a decent amount of time with. Clean tones might be right up my ally, but I do enjoy pushing my tube head really hard.
The Walkabout has my vote in this category--it sounds like an all-tube amp but carries like a SS head.
Mesa M-pulse 600 will do this, as will the Genz-Benz Streamliners... The Walkabout will, too - but just doesn't have enough power for *my* needs... The Big Block 750 will also, but goes from warm and clean to driven too early for me, and doesn't have nearly the headroom and low end of the M-pulse 600...
- georgestrings
Ampeg svp pro or the mesas as others have suggested.
Or given that you dig the old peavy you might prefer a gk like a 700rb2. Killer dirty solid state tones.
Fun I just recommended all the amps I own, we must have similar taste
Or given that you dig the old peavy you might prefer a gk like a 700rb2. Killer dirty solid state tones.
Fun I just recommended all the amps I own, we must have similar taste
If you need lots of volume--especially into inefficient cabs--the Walkabout's 300 watts (into 4 ohms) might come up shy. OTOH, the OP was complaining that his Classic 400 is "enormously loud." Tube grunt at modest SPLs is where the WA shines.
The Mesa Bass 400 (non plus) originally came with 6550 tubes. If a Bass 400 has been serviced by Mesa since it came out they will usually convert it to 6L6 tubes, but quite a few are still out there running 6550.
In my experience, same amp, same bass, same cabs, with just the tubes switched over from 6L6 to 6550, I felt like the low end was more extended and solid sounding. My Bass 400 is only about 225 watts, but I have never had a problem being loud enough, except at outdoor shows where you get no boundary reinforcement of the low end.
Check out a 6550 powered Bass 400 before you write them off. Also IMHO all Mesa tube heads sound better with the preamp tubes swapped for some nice JJ Tesla or NOS JAN Sylvania, RCA etc.
You guys are getting me interested in the CL. Sounds like a glorious amp for doom.
Two other things you can do to keep a 400/400+ cleaner at higher volume: One is to use a 5751 in V1. This will allow you to crank the preamp a little bit more than normal and it stays clean longer. Second- run some type of clean boost in your FX loop (I use my Sansamp on Line level for this purpose). I found this increases clean output by a lot (and has some sort of magic just upping the Master doesnt, for some reason) and can give you a little power tube breakup if you actually crank.
JJ KT-88's definitely give you some extra low end in a 400.
Two other things you can do to keep a 400/400+ cleaner at higher volume: One is to use a 5751 in V1. This will allow you to crank the preamp a little bit more than normal and it stays clean longer. Second- run some type of clean boost in your FX loop (I use my Sansamp on Line level for this purpose). I found this increases clean output by a lot (and has some sort of magic just upping the Master doesnt, for some reason) and can give you a little power tube breakup if you actually crank.
This is a pic of all my basses in the studio several years back -- the amp I was plugging them into was a Bass 400+.
Funny that you recommend that amp, and mention Sterlings and Magnums in your sig.
We probably have similar taste in gear.
Going to go demo some amps and preamps tomorrow based on all the good recommendations here.
I'll let you know what blows my skirt up...
Funny that you recommend that amp, and mention Sterlings and Magnums in your sig.
We probably have similar taste in gear.
Going to go demo some amps and preamps tomorrow based on all the good recommendations here.
I'll let you know what blows my skirt up...
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I hear ya!
My main bass is a Dingwall Afterburner II with the semi-chambered "X-Top".
For effects, I use a Boss GT-6B -- and I try to keeep everything as close to unity gain as possible, skipping all the EQ, compression, and amp modeling (which are so-so) and sticking with what it does best; digitial effects like delay, chorus, phasing, bass synth, etc. Much of the time it is bypassed and out of the signal chain.
When I play thru my Classic 400, I typically use two Sunn 410 cabs that I've had since 1999.
These cabs are modded so that three of the 10" in each are full-range and only one is run through the crossover.
I treat the crossover/10"/tweeter as a single 8-ohm load in a series-parallel wiring scheme so that only 25% of the wattage goes thru the crossovers -- keeps the tweeter from taking over the sound or getting fried.
For my rack setup, I'm currently using a Sans Amp PSA-1 and a Crown XLS2500 power amp. That setup goes into a nEarful cab; a Carvin 1503 that I've upgraded with a 3015LF and custom crossovers I built with parts from Erse Audio.
My idea with the rack setup is that it's my portable, everyday gigging rig & MOST soundmen will just take the DI out from the back of the rack. So, I want that XLR out to be as similar as possible to what I'm hearing onstage.
Every preamp I've used so far does the clean or the dirt well, but not that sweet spot in between.
So that's the Grail I'm searching for.
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So I went and tried out a bunch of amps today:
- Warwick Tubepath 5.1
- Mesa M6
- Mesa Big Block
- GK Fusion 550
- Aguilar TH500
- Genz Benz Streamliner 600
- TC Electronic BH500
- MarkBass "Randy Jackson" (I forget the model #)
To me, none of them really did the gentle transition into overdrive very well.
Ironically, the one that made my ears the happiest was one of the cleanest of the bunch -- the Mesa M6.
That amp was just FAST -- it reminded me of the original Demeter preamp (VTBP-201), but with a lot more muscle in the lows.
Luckily for me, the shop had an effect board hooked up -- and what should I see but a Way Huge Pork Loin labeled "Soft Clipping Injection"!! Hey; soft clipping!
So I experimented with the Pork Loin and was able to dial in the perfect "tube amp on the verge of chaos" tone.
Into the M6, it was just godlike, and entirely controllable.
My ears are happy again, and I see why the M6 has its own megathread.
It's an AWESOME amp -- and now I need to go sell some things...
- Warwick Tubepath 5.1
- Mesa M6
- Mesa Big Block
- GK Fusion 550
- Aguilar TH500
- Genz Benz Streamliner 600
- TC Electronic BH500
- MarkBass "Randy Jackson" (I forget the model #)
To me, none of them really did the gentle transition into overdrive very well.
Ironically, the one that made my ears the happiest was one of the cleanest of the bunch -- the Mesa M6.
That amp was just FAST -- it reminded me of the original Demeter preamp (VTBP-201), but with a lot more muscle in the lows.
Luckily for me, the shop had an effect board hooked up -- and what should I see but a Way Huge Pork Loin labeled "Soft Clipping Injection"!! Hey; soft clipping!
So I experimented with the Pork Loin and was able to dial in the perfect "tube amp on the verge of chaos" tone.
Into the M6, it was just godlike, and entirely controllable.
My ears are happy again, and I see why the M6 has its own megathread.
It's an AWESOME amp -- and now I need to go sell some things...
