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The $100 Pro Set-up. Worth it?

Bottom line is: Somebody has to do the setups.
Yes, getting a pro setup is Worth It.
Ideally, you learn how to do it yourself.
Until you're comfortable, paying for it is still wise.

But, without fret work, $100 Is alot of money for a setup.
Shoulda been closer to half that.
 
Not everybody is handy with tools. If that is the case, spend what you need for a quality setup. I have lately been doing more stuff myself just out of cheapness, but I still will budget for a pro level setup at least once a year.:)

Not everybody is handy with putting eighth notes in proper time to form a groove -- but they're working on it! IMO instrument setup is an important skill for any accomplished player, and it is worth the effort to learn.

There are four primary adjustments. Relief, saddle height, intonation, and pickup height. You just have to learn what they are, how they work and interact, and how to measure and adjust them correctly.

I think a lot of the appeal of a Pro Setup is that its called "Pro", and people think some magic is being worked behind the music shop's counter. But its really very simple, and since a lot of personal preference is involved, you're better off doing it yourself.
 
I guess it comes down to preference.. I have the luxury of having helped out in a music store when I was younger, doing setups.. so I am confident in doing the work myself.. and since I get strings for around 7$ a set through an endorsement deal, I could probably do about 10 setups for $100 including buying the tools to do so..

to each their own.. I just wouldnt pay someone to do something I can do in 15 minutes.
 
Worst setup that I paid for is when I took my bass to a well respected local guy and when I picked it up he told me that Timmy (or whatever his 16 year kid's name was) did my setup. Of course it was the same price, but dude, I'm paying for experience. That was the last time I went to that shop and have since found a very good luthier.
 
Yes, I know the basics of intonation correction and adjustment, string/pickup height, neck adjustment, ect., but putting all of the pieces together is the art. At the risk of being flamed, its somewhat like how Sadowsky puts mostly CNC parts together, parts that anyone can aquire, but then sets the parts up to create that Sadowsky magic most find in his basses. My SR4 plays like a completely different bass now and it didn't really play that poorly before (I thought).
 
There are four primary adjustments. Relief, saddle height, intonation, and pickup height. You just have to learn what they are, how they work and interact, and how to measure and adjust them correctly.

I would respectfully propose that those are the secondary adjustments. The primary adjustments are cutting the nut slots and leveling the frets. Until you've got them right, you're kind of polishing an unfinished instrument. Nuts and frets should be finished right when the instrument leaves the builder's shop, but very often they are not. A few bucks paying a pro to get these elements dialed in is one of the big differences between a top shelf pro instrument and a well set up Fender, and it is a big difference.

The rest of the stuff I totally agree with. A real pro technician will spend time watching you play and testing different relief/saddle height combinations until he gets your signature set up down, and it's really not worth it for him or for you to do things that way. You can do the same thing if you educate yourself, as Pickles suggests. Read Dan Erlewine's books and "practice on scrap." It's well worth the time and dollars invested.
 
I would respectfully propose that those are the secondary adjustments. The primary adjustments are cutting the nut slots and leveling the frets.

Neither of those are setup issues. They are build/repair issues, as neither are adjustable (unless you have one of those Warwick Just-a-nuts).

A bass should come to you with those issues already taken care of- if they aren't, you need to have them sent to a luthier/repairman to have them fixed. A setup doesn't fix anything- it adjusts the bass to a player's playabilty preferences.
 
I too do my own setups (and build a bass from time to time) so I obviously wouldn't pay to have it done but if I lacked the knowledge to do my own and the bass was in bad need of it, I think 100.00 including new strings isn't unreasonable.
 
Neither of those are setup issues. They are build/repair issues, as neither are adjustable (unless you have one of those Warwick Just-a-nuts).

A bass should come to you with those issues already taken care of- if they aren't, you need to have them sent to a luthier/repairman to have them fixed. A setup doesn't fix anything- it adjusts the bass to a player's playabilty preferences.

I mostly agree, with the caveat that a pro doesn't waste time dialing in a set up on a bass with an improperly cut nut. He knows that he'll never get the intonation a real player demands until the nut slot height is right. Call it a repair, call it a cab, but everything up through most Fenders and Music Mans are shipped with high nuts to accomodate the retailer. Before stepping into the shower we should remove our socks and underwear!

As for the fret leveling, I totally agree that this is not really a set up issue. I just can't help pointing out that unless you're spending some pretty good coin on your new bass, you shouldn't expect much of a fret job. The fret job is the soul of a good bass, and getting it hand finished is almost always well worthwhile. I feel most players would be well served getting this done before spending money on a set up. Besides, usually the relief and saddle height adjustment is thrown in free with the fret dressing.
 
Not everybody is handy with putting eighth notes in proper time to form a groove -- but they're working on it! IMO instrument setup is an important skill for any accomplished player, and it is worth the effort to learn.

There are four primary adjustments. Relief, saddle height, intonation, and pickup height. You just have to learn what they are, how they work and interact, and how to measure and adjust them correctly.

I think a lot of the appeal of a Pro Setup is that its called "Pro", and people think some magic is being worked behind the music shop's counter. But its really very simple, and since a lot of personal preference is involved, you're better off doing it yourself.

This is a classic do what's best for you situation. Those who are so inclined should do it. If you prefer someone else do it, it's your business.:)
 
I would respectfully propose that those are the secondary adjustments. The primary adjustments are cutting the nut slots and leveling the frets. Until you've got them right, you're kind of polishing an unfinished instrument.

I absolutely agree, but for me those fall onto the "repair" side of the thin line ... not really "setup". Fret and nut work does take quite a bit of specialized training and practice, relief and saddle adjustments really don't require much at all.

IMHO knowing how to set up (but not necessarily repair) your bass is almost as important as knowing how to tune it.

I've purchased many used instruments with bad setups. The owner thought they needed a new bass, but they really just needed to dial in the one they had!
 
I'll preface my response by saying that I do all of my own setup work, and have for years, since back in the days that I worked at a retail music store, and actually did set-up, repair, mods, etc. for other folks.

In my opinion, more important than the price, more important than ANYTHING else, is WHO does the setup. I'm sure that $100 is a little steep in some markets, a little soft in others, but none of that makes any difference at all if the person doing the set-up is not talented enough to get it right. Ask around, find out who "the right guy" in your area is, and don't just rely on dropping off your instrument at the local music store for "whoever" to do a "pro" setup. If you find the right person to do the work, and get it right, I don't think that the question of how much $ will be nearly as important.
 
It's always the same. Someone says they had a setup done and it cost $100. Someone else says that they never pay more than $25. How come there's such a difference?

Sometimes you get what you pay for. If your luthier's rate is $50 per hour, do you reasonable expect that he will spend 2 hours doing a setup? And the answer is "yes" and "no". Depends on what he does in a setup. Here's what he might do:

1. Set the neck relief. Generally this is measured in thousandths of an inch. I certainly can tell the difference when I set up my bass with 10 thou or 12 thou relief. You need the right tools to do this and the patience to tweak and try for a while to find the optimum for the particular bass, the particular strings and the owner's playing style.

2. Adjust the nut slots. Not so critical a measurement as relief, but a lot more risky to attempt. If you mis-adjust the relief, you can always correct it with another truss rod tweak. Mis-cut a nut and it's a lot more trouble to correct.

3. Adjust string height at the bridge. Not a difficult thing to do, but can be fiddly getting a good match of the strings to the fretboard radius with a slight gradation of increased clearance on the lower strings.

4. Intonation adjustment. Here's where a lot of experience can be beneficial. New strings intonate differently that old ones. So if you set the intonation perfect on a new set of stings, the intonation has no where to go but to get worse as the strings age. Probably better for the owner if you deliberately intonate off a bit in such a way that the intonation will actually improve for a while as the strings settle in. And it's worth noting that intonation problems show up regularly on TB. Clearly not everyone understands intonation, how it works, what causes intonation problems, etc.

5. Pickup height adjustment. A proper setup will take this into account. There are numerous complications caused by pickups set too close to the strings or too far away. There's lots of room for personal taste here to, so the setup person must have a pretty good understanding of what you want from your instrument to do this right. You need to pay attention to the balance of overtones as you adjust the pickup height. Weird things start to happend to overtones once the pickup get close enough to the string to magnetically affect the string's vibration.

6. Check fret ends and dress as required - especially on a new bass (less than 2 years old) and especially on maple fingerboards. Dressing the fret ends may involve re-bevelling and re-rounding the fret ends, depending on how much trimming was required.

7. Play Test. This is the most important test the setup tech does. And it helps to have a lot of experience here. The tech will look for evidence of unevenness in the frets. A light dress of a problem fret or two should be part of the setup (or resetting of one or two loose frets). A complete fret dress is not usually considered part of a setup. The trick is in identifying if there is one or two problem frets or there is a problem with inadequate relief. Depends on the resonance characteristics of the bass, the type and gauge of string, the geometry of the fingerboard, etc. Yah, a lot of experience is an asset here.

And for what it's worth, a fret dress (even for a single fret) should consist of levelling, recrowning and polishing it.

8. Re-tweak everything - relief, string-height, intonation. The tech probably will not have to deal with the nut again, but sometimes it is necessary because of sympathetic vibrations behind the fretted note causing the string to rattle a bit against the lower frets. Damn fussy work to achieve a balance between easy playablity and freedom from unwanted noise.

9. Repeat steps 7 and 8 until it is right.

10. Measure and record everything. This part is optional, but better luthiers do this. But it's only worth doing if the tech is willing to spend the time with the player to learn how the player plays, his likes and dislikes,etc. But once you have the setup just right for a player, it's nice to have a record of the exact setup so you can reproduce it.

With experience, you might be able to do all of this in an hour - though it's not likely. On the other hand, if we're talking only about a quick truss rod adjustment, then an hour is too much time.

So in the case of a tech who's rate is $50 per hour, perhaps $100 for a setup is entirely reasonable. But if he is only setting the truss rod and string height, $100 seems pricey.

FWIW, I have seen advertised prices for setups that range from 37.50 to $200 (Canadian).

Best advice is to ask what you are getting for your money. And while you are at it, ask what the hourly rate is. And ask if you can get your instrument adjusted at no additional cost if it doesn't play right for you after the first setup attempt. Know what it is that you are paying for.

Then you can say if it's too much or not.
 
Turnaround, that was a great post. I have thought about this, and I think that there are two schools of thought going on here. Steady gigging musicians are probably more likely to get handy with setups quickly because their basses are money making tools that need to be ready for work. Someone like me who plays mainly for fun and only out once and a while will often approach the bass more like a prize sport car and will be more inclined to take it in for fairly minor work.

That said, cheapness is making do more work. I recently did my own trussrod adjustment on my Millennium after it had a major setup (the tech said the neck was still settling and would need some tweaking.) I should it to a local dealer and he thought I had adjusted it quite nicely. I know it plays well with no buzzing. Now that I have some confidence, I will handle trussrod adjustments myself. It will be a while before I do intonation and I wil probably always leave fretwork and nuts to a pro.
 
I like to try different strings. The strings are already expensive enough. If I had to pay for an adjustment every time I put on new strings and took them off, I would not be able to try new strings often.

For example, I just removed the tapewounds off one bass and put on chromes. I had to adjust the truss, fix the string height, and adjust the intonation. Then I decided to tune BEAD. Now I have to adjust the truss, fix the string height, and adjust the intonation. If I don't like it, I will put it back to EADG. Then I have to..... well you get the picture.
 

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