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The age old question

JacksonsMen

JacksonsMen

Nov 11, 2005
1,339
0
40
Tampa / On Tour
www.nottonightjosephine.com
#1
ok, so currently im running a Henry the 8X8, 4ohms and 480W, powered by a Hartke HA2500 (250W @ 4ohm) that has a BBE 482i in the effects loop.

First question is: is it smart to have the 482i (and my Korg DTR-2000) in the effects loop? or should they be in the signal chain before the amp alltogether.

moving on...

Is it possible that, with the assistance of the maximizer, that 250W head is putting my cab in danger of blowing a driver? I know i have headroom from the power side of the head, but is there any way that the maximizer is giving it enough of a boost to endanger the cab? (i ask because i do sometime notice the cab distorting, at least i think it is)
 
#4
Oh God. Here we go. Tin hats on, everybody....

JacksonsMen, you have just opened the greatest Pandora's box of TB discussion. If I were you I would retire to a very safe distance now, and watch the munitions arcing across no-man's land from one entrenched position to the other. :D
 
#5
Espidog said:
Oh God. Here we go. Tin hats on, everybody....

JacksonsMen, you have just opened the greatest Pandora's box of TB discussion. If I were you I would retire to a very safe distance now, and watch the munitions arcing across no-man's land from one entrenched position to the other. :D
Click to expand...

my hats already on.......i think this is the reason why i never figured this out, no one came up with a straight answer
 
#6
Actually, this issue has been discussed about a million times, and from what I see in all the threads, pretty much everyone agrees.

1) The power rating of a cab is pretty meaningless... it represents the manufacturers suggested MAXIMUM power input, and has nothing to do with 'matching' a cab to an amp or 'requiring' a certain amount of power. It just suggests how much power a cab can 'safely' handle'. Since amps don't deliver their rated RMS power constantly through normal playing situations, you can usually use an amp with much more power (some say double) to a cab versus its 'maximum rating'.

Power rating of a cab also has nothing to do with efficiency (SPL), which can make a huge difference in how loud a cab gets per watt... which of course directly impacts the 'headroom' of the amp.

2) Most define headroom as the amount of 'clean power' you have in reserve in the context of your normal playing volume to handle transients, etc. A 250 watt head can have plenty 'headroom' if you are playing at moderate levels with an efficient cab and don't have a ton of bass cranked into your sound. A 1000 watt amp can easily 'run out of headroom' if you are using a very inefficient cab and have a very bass heavy tone (since it takes a lot more power to reproduce the low bass frequencies).

In your case, if you are hearing distortion, it might be due to cranking too much low end into that very tightly voiced cab with those relatively small 8" speakers.... or, your amp could just be running out of power at higher volumes. My guess is, using the maximizer, the distortion you are hearing is from the amp. Just turn down a little, or even better, get rid of the maximizer!
 
#8
JacksonsMen said:
im thinking about doing that actually, i really dont use it all that much anymore.

i really need to get ahold of a 1x15 or 2x15 cab to take the lows away from the 8x8, but that means getting a head that can handle down to 2ohms.....which mine doesnt
Click to expand...

A well designed cab with small speakers can still produce a lot of low end. My guess is, you really are probably just running out of headroom with that amp when you really start cranking. A more powerful head would probably result in significantly more bass response through that cab, and a cleaner tone in general. I don't think the 8x8 would generate thundering lows, but from what I've read from users, that cab can put out quite a whallup with 500 or so watts cranked into it.

Also, many constantly post the fact that doubling your power will result in only a modest 3db increase in volume (which is quite a bit actually, and is noticable). What many fail to consider is that doubling power from a very low level (250 to 500) can actually mean the difference between running out of headroom and having enough clean power to project your sound (if you are pushing the low wattage head to its maximum output), versus going, for example, from 500 to 1000watts when you mith not be even using the entire 500 watts to begin with in a normal playing context.
 
#10
If you're going to spend any money on your rig, upgrading to a better head that puts out about 500 watts at 4 ohms will be your best bet. You're fortunate, since that seems to be a very popular output rating these days, so you have lots to choose from.
 
#14
I would suggest not plugging into the DTR - 2000. That tuner is not true bypass and will degrade your signal if you plug from the tuner to the amp. To tune silently, turn your master all the way down to "0" and pull out the cord and plug into the Tuner. Yes it's a hassel, but you will not get any signal loss doing this.

I am not sure why you have the BBE 482i in the effects loop. I have not tried a Hartke amp that lacked in the lows or the highs. If you like the tone enhancement with the 482i, then use it. Personally, I like to use my amp only for my clean sound. I think you should try the Hartke without the 482i, you might like what you hear.
 
#15
Gearhead17 said:
I would suggest not plugging into the DTR - 2000. That tuner is not true bypass and will degrade your signal if you plug from the tuner to the amp. To tune silently, turn your master all the way down to "0" and pull out the cord and plug into the Tuner. Yes it's a hassel, but you will not get any signal loss doing this.

I am not sure why you have the BBE 482i in the effects loop. I have not tried a Hartke amp that lacked in the lows or the highs. If you like the tone enhancement with the 482i, then use it. Personally, I like to use my amp only for my clean sound. I think you should try the Hartke without the 482i, you might like what you hear.
Click to expand...
Is it a noticable degredation? If not do whats easiest

Because even in a "true bypass" situation there will be degredation
 
#16
To be honest, the signal degradation is not huge, like I made it sound. I just hate plugging into anything before my main amp and I try to avoid this as much as I can. However, I do plug into a Radial Big Shot MIX which has a buffered input and output and this, to my ears, causes no noticeable signal degradation.

The real age old question is, Why buy an expensive bass if you are just going to plug it into several units before your main amp? You might as well buy a cheaper bass and plug into everything before your amp, the two basses will sound nearly the same in the end. I have always been a firm believer that a good instrument does not need a tone of tonal enhancement to sound great - it should sound great right away. Just how I think.
 
#17
Thats true, i was asking as i didnt think there would be a huge degredation if any noticable at all.

I agree with what your saying about having an expensive bass then plugging it into X,Y,Z to an extent, but thats what i do, and a heavily coloured sound still sounds amazing with a great bass ;)

It just also makes cheapy basses sound good too.

Another thing to look at is in the end the practicalities, being able to tune mutted at the push of a button is much more practical than having to unplug and turn the master volume down etc, and will anyone notice the difference in sound, not just the people in the audience, but everyone on stage, because i doubt it'd be noticable in the mix :)
 
#18
i_got_a_mohawk

I agree with your statements. Mute switches are great! I guess it falls down to; I will notice if my signal from my bass is bad! Bandmates might be able to tell the bass signal is missing something, but the audience will not be able to tell. However, I know I play better when "my sound" is roaring behind me. So personal satisfaction is the key here.
 

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