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Double Bass The Bach Videos Are Coming!!
- Thread starter fergus currie
- Start date
Hi Fergus, I am not often over here in the orchestral technique area, but while I was - your post caught my eye. Well done on the Allemande - I have not had time to look at the others yet. I have been working on the Prelude to Suite 1, notating it and adding my fingerings as I get additional bars under my belt. I think I appreciate to some extent the work you must have put in, and you should feel very satisfied with your efforts and the skills they must have undoubtedly contributed to your persona as a bassist.
I notice you have 5 strings - how are they tuned? This must have influenced some decisions you made in approaching the piece. I also notice the pitch is in the cello range, whereas I am trying on this first attempt at working from the low G on the E string as my opening note, which so far has required a few C, C# and D notes to be transposed an octave. I wonder if my version is going to sound too muddy and incomprehensible to people who don't listen to bass much?
Anyway, thanks for the extra spur of inspiration, and I would love to see and hear your take on the prelude if it is in your repertoire.
regards, Steve
I notice you have 5 strings - how are they tuned? This must have influenced some decisions you made in approaching the piece. I also notice the pitch is in the cello range, whereas I am trying on this first attempt at working from the low G on the E string as my opening note, which so far has required a few C, C# and D notes to be transposed an octave. I wonder if my version is going to sound too muddy and incomprehensible to people who don't listen to bass much?
Anyway, thanks for the extra spur of inspiration, and I would love to see and hear your take on the prelude if it is in your repertoire.
regards, Steve
Thanks for the kind words, Steve. I does require a lot of work to get these things flowing and I'm still along way from my goal. I have the whole suite from memory but I have a huge amount of other work (orchestration, teaching etc.) which is getting in the way of my practice routine. I have actually stopped playing for about two weeks now but I hope to get back at it by the end of October. By then I should have more and better videos!
Cheers
FC
Cheers
FC
I have just been looking at the Edgar Meyer CD on Amazon "Bach Unaccompanied Cello Suites: Performed on Double Bass".
It is really interesting to look at the customer reviews (there are 31), as it gives quite a cross-section of what people expect to hear from the Cello suites, how they think Double Bass may or may not suit their tastes, etc.
It is so easy to get absorbed in the self-satisfaction of learning music like this on the bass, and to forget what the listener is hearing and or expecting. Kind of a reality check, for me anyway - I was feeling so pleased with having learned 70% of the notes in the first prelude!
It is really interesting to look at the customer reviews (there are 31), as it gives quite a cross-section of what people expect to hear from the Cello suites, how they think Double Bass may or may not suit their tastes, etc.
It is so easy to get absorbed in the self-satisfaction of learning music like this on the bass, and to forget what the listener is hearing and or expecting. Kind of a reality check, for me anyway - I was feeling so pleased with having learned 70% of the notes in the first prelude!
I am the last person on this board qualified to comment beyond saying that I very much enjoyed your play on these pieces and your tempi choices--including the Allemande.
These three are now permanently ensconced in my iTunes library. I can't imagine to what I could listen that would better lower my abnormally high blood pressure. Soothing. Delightful. Beautiful.
Thank you.
These three are now permanently ensconced in my iTunes library. I can't imagine to what I could listen that would better lower my abnormally high blood pressure. Soothing. Delightful. Beautiful.
Thank you.
Well, thanks to everyone for all the cool comments and the positive constructive criticism. As you may or may not know I am also a professional arranger. Recently I got commissioned to orchestrate a complicated post-romantic piano concerto which will take up every waking hour of my time until the end of January. I feel a bit annoyed that I wont have any time to play the bass (It's already been in the case for 3 weeks). I had the Suite in a reasonable condition at the end of September when I made these videos but never got round to doing the other 3 movements on video even as a test run. (the videos here are test runs - more for me to here my intonnation and phrasing problems than to show off to anyone).
I might even miss an audition that I've been waiting to be announced for almost a year now! Any way, the long and the short of it is that the Bach Videos are not coming as soon as I thought. Even if I took a weekend off to do some practice I'd not get back into shape enough to video anything worth posting.
Thanks and sorry,
FC
I might even miss an audition that I've been waiting to be announced for almost a year now! Any way, the long and the short of it is that the Bach Videos are not coming as soon as I thought. Even if I took a weekend off to do some practice I'd not get back into shape enough to video anything worth posting.
Thanks and sorry,
FC
You hardly owe an apology, Fergus.
We all have to eat. I'm just happy for you that you are doing something that involves music to survive. Thanks to your complete musicianship you have allowed yourself to do this.
Don't be a stranger here. Try to keep some chops up and hang in there..........
We all have to eat. I'm just happy for you that you are doing something that involves music to survive. Thanks to your complete musicianship you have allowed yourself to do this.
Don't be a stranger here. Try to keep some chops up and hang in there..........
Cheers PEE, I'll no doubt get the occasional gig which will force me to excavate the big banjo now and then. The orchestration gig is a monster though, 35 minutes of Richard Strauss style orchestratal writing and a solo piano in the middle of it all! To give you an idea, it's now sunday morining at 10:30 and I've alrrady been at the computer for an hour. I'll be here until 8 or 9 o'clock tonight. This will be a typical day for me until the end of January!
I've got one gig on the calender in Istanbul on Nov. 28 but that's it for the bass!!! (****, it looks bleaker that I imagined when I wrote that down!)
I sure won't be no stranger here man!
Respect.
FC
The following is after I posted this and got bleeped (****)
I got my bleeps edited automatically!!! Sorry, but I have to add I didn't use the 'F' word but the 'S' word.... Still a prude then Fergus, ehh?
I've got one gig on the calender in Istanbul on Nov. 28 but that's it for the bass!!! (****, it looks bleaker that I imagined when I wrote that down!)
I sure won't be no stranger here man!
Respect.
FC
The following is after I posted this and got bleeped (****)
I got my bleeps edited automatically!!! Sorry, but I have to add I didn't use the 'F' word but the 'S' word.... Still a prude then Fergus, ehh?
Fergus,
I´m late to the game on this thread, so there´s nothing left to say in terms of shifting, crossing strings, etcpp.
Everyone should, imho, work on this music, it´s endlessly rewarding for both your bass playing and the relaxation it can give your mind. You´ve come quite a long way with these, and you deserve tons of respect for your work. Like others, I really liked the relaxed easiness of the Allemande. So easy to overplay on these pieces.
From my own experience, I know that this is an endless road, but once we accept this and learn that it´ll never be fully done, it suddenly becomes easy. And suddenly, pausing a while on the way cause other things are to be done, is not that big a deal- it´s endless anyways, so what? -Have you checked out d minor yet? Also fantastic to play on the bass.
All the best
Sidecar
I´m late to the game on this thread, so there´s nothing left to say in terms of shifting, crossing strings, etcpp.
Everyone should, imho, work on this music, it´s endlessly rewarding for both your bass playing and the relaxation it can give your mind. You´ve come quite a long way with these, and you deserve tons of respect for your work. Like others, I really liked the relaxed easiness of the Allemande. So easy to overplay on these pieces.
From my own experience, I know that this is an endless road, but once we accept this and learn that it´ll never be fully done, it suddenly becomes easy. And suddenly, pausing a while on the way cause other things are to be done, is not that big a deal- it´s endless anyways, so what? -Have you checked out d minor yet? Also fantastic to play on the bass.
All the best
Sidecar
That was great~ I'm going to start fretting notes with my thumb on electric while playing disco covers in Las Vegas lounges. I'll tell my friends I invented the technique! LOL.
Well, that says as much about your friends as it does about you.
Pardon me, that one was too much of an "easy kill". Not meant personal.
Best
Sidecar
Bravo! You have obviously have very good ideas about how you like the music and you are certainly achieving many of them. You mentioned intonational slip-ups, but they were not common and from what I listened to, your intonation for the most part was great! In fact the only thing that was aurally alerting to me were some sudden pushes in the pulse, I think usually in passages with multiple shifts. I just love Bach!
We probably have different backgrounds and schooling in bass playing, but the one thing that immediately struck me was your RH's floating pinky. It seems sometimes that you are simply dragging or pushing the bow across the string, possibly as a result of this. Some pedagogues even have the approach of using the thumb, first, and fourth fingers as a sort of load-bearing triangle, with the middle fingers for control (I believe this stems from old Russian schools of cello playing, but I could be wrong.) Kurt Muroki recently told me that his approach is using the second finger as the main point of contact (as you appear to be doing) and the first and fourth fingers for control. I think he described it as "second is for power and third is for... MORE power." So if you experiment with that approach, you basically have it going already and just dropping your pinky and using it in conjunction with your index finger for control might open up all sorts of possibilities for your right arm.
Bravo again,
D. Tosky
We probably have different backgrounds and schooling in bass playing, but the one thing that immediately struck me was your RH's floating pinky. It seems sometimes that you are simply dragging or pushing the bow across the string, possibly as a result of this. Some pedagogues even have the approach of using the thumb, first, and fourth fingers as a sort of load-bearing triangle, with the middle fingers for control (I believe this stems from old Russian schools of cello playing, but I could be wrong.) Kurt Muroki recently told me that his approach is using the second finger as the main point of contact (as you appear to be doing) and the first and fourth fingers for control. I think he described it as "second is for power and third is for... MORE power." So if you experiment with that approach, you basically have it going already and just dropping your pinky and using it in conjunction with your index finger for control might open up all sorts of possibilities for your right arm.
Bravo again,
D. Tosky
Hey, D......really a nice post. Good observations, exchange of ideas and good props to a deserving player. We could use more of that around here, IMO.
Welcome to TBDB.
Welcome to TBDB.
Thanks D. I found that an orchestral aproach to the Cello Suites can be a bit rough so, as you mention I tend to just push the bow from side to side. I spent 25 years playing in pro orchestras and my playing had become quite agressive. I stopped playing all together about 5 years ago and last year I decided to get back on the horse. The Cello Suites seemed like a nice challenge. I found the worst bit of relearning the bass was practicing what you know is right when you're doing it on your own. The 'flying pinky' is a case in point and video is the only way to bring this home. Unfortunately since these videos were made I have stopped again since October and I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever play properly again!! My work now is as an arranger and orchestrator and I can't find time to string two notes together, let alone a Bottesini concerto. As Robert Burns says, 'The best laid plans of mice and men aye gang aglay.' In other words, we all plan to do more than we ever could.
I see you use a Reed Hudson bow. My freind Dominic Seldis (principal in Amsterdam Concertgebow) had one which was just a dream. The one I'm using here was made for me by the Ukranian maker Slava Martinchenko.
I see you use a Reed Hudson bow. My freind Dominic Seldis (principal in Amsterdam Concertgebow) had one which was just a dream. The one I'm using here was made for me by the Ukranian maker Slava Martinchenko.
You are absolutely right about orchestral-style playing for Bach... it's really a difficult thing to play the bass like a bass while still finding the lightness and correct character. I am just a student and this is certainly something that I have not truly figured out yet, and possibly never will. I do think it would be to your benefit though to have more control of the weight of the stick, even while playing Bach. But who knows, you are definitely achieving a high level of music making, and I think that is what's most important.
But on the topic of bows, I am very fond of my Hudson. It is a great orchestral bow... if I had to give it a title I would call it a "Brahms" bow. Very full sound - even in sensitive passages - and it still has the muscle when you need it. I definitely recommend Mr. Hudson's bows, plus they seem to be a solid investment, climbing fairly steadily in value. I have never seen a bow by Mr. Martinchenko, but it looks like you are happy with your equipment or, if not, at least able to create music beyond any limitations your equipment may have. Even if you don't have time to practice, music for pleasure is the best!
But on the topic of bows, I am very fond of my Hudson. It is a great orchestral bow... if I had to give it a title I would call it a "Brahms" bow. Very full sound - even in sensitive passages - and it still has the muscle when you need it. I definitely recommend Mr. Hudson's bows, plus they seem to be a solid investment, climbing fairly steadily in value. I have never seen a bow by Mr. Martinchenko, but it looks like you are happy with your equipment or, if not, at least able to create music beyond any limitations your equipment may have. Even if you don't have time to practice, music for pleasure is the best!
