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Double Bass The Band and Troll together?

DB Slidefunk

DB Slidefunk

Guest
Jul 16, 2013
281
41
UK
#1
Hi guys. I'm wondering if anyone has tried the above set up?

I'm currently using a mix of lifeline and troll into an EDB-2. Stage sound is pretty loud sometimes so I can't always get much mic in the blend. For me the lifeline doesn't sound that great on it's own. My bass is pretty dark sounding so the lifeline tends to make a very loud but muddy sound and the pianist is always asking me to turn up the treble. It only really sounds good with a little mic mixed in.

I'm thinking the band might be a bit better on it's own and a lot better blended with the troll?
 
#2
DB Slidefunk said:
Hi guys. I'm wondering if anyone has tried the above set up?

I'm currently using a mix of lifeline and troll into an EDB-2. Stage sound is pretty loud sometimes so I can't always get much mic in the blend. For me the lifeline doesn't sound that great on it's own. My bass is pretty dark sounding so the lifeline tends to make a very loud but muddy sound and the pianist is always asking me to turn up the treble. It only really sounds good with a little mic mixed in.

I'm thinking the band might be a bit better on it's own and a lot better blended with the troll?
Click to expand...

DB,
I spent some quality time with the Headway Band, when Gordon sent it around for us try, late last summer. Having also used a Realist (Copper Foil) for many years as a comparison, here's
my 2 cents. On my french bass, the Band had an evener and cleaner response, across the full range of the instrument. So, it's a clearer sounding pickup, with more useable bass response, and can get
pretty loud (remember here, were talking about a piezo pickup on a Double Bass) The Realist (Copper Foil) IMHO tends to overemphasize upper midrange, and pump lows at higher volumes. It works
beautifully at low to moderate volumes. So that's my take, just one guys opinion.

Ric
 
#3
Thanks Ric,
That's the impression I got from people who got the band to work. I'm a bit fed up with the lifeline, the sound is too muddy when amped up. Backed up with a little bit of troll mic I recon I'll get a much improved sound.
 
#4
DB Slidefunk said:
Hi guys. I'm wondering if anyone has tried the above set up?

I'm currently using a mix of lifeline and troll into an EDB-2. Stage sound is pretty loud sometimes so I can't always get much mic in the blend. For me the lifeline doesn't sound that great on it's own. My bass is pretty dark sounding so the lifeline tends to make a very loud but muddy sound and the pianist is always asking me to turn up the treble. It only really sounds good with a little mic mixed in.

I'm thinking the band might be a bit better on it's own and a lot better blended with the troll?
Click to expand...

Hi Slide, I also use the Lifeline through the EDB-2 and have generally good results (I have a 7/8 Shen Gemunder and a SB80 Shen ply that I am using most of the time for gigs.)

It's maybe been mentioned before, but just the other day I played a gig in a rather boomy room with a 5 piece group. I moved the switch on the Headway to'Guitar' which, I expect, moves the bass rolloff from around 40 hz up to maybe 80hz. Really got a good result. Still had a nice full bass sound (not muddy) but the boominess was gone. I kept that setting the next night in a different room with a trio and the guitarist said I had a really good sound which really allowed him to hear my notes better. You mention a 'muddy' sound. Probably not quite the same thing as a 'boomy' room but I would try that guitar setting and see if it helps. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

PS I also have 'The BAND' but still find myself using the LIfeline. It is probably not as 'realistic' (no pun intended) or 'microphonic' as The BAND but I like the Punch it gives me.
 
#6
rickwolff said:
It's maybe been mentioned before, but just the other day I played a gig in a rather boomy room with a 5 piece group. I moved the switch on the Headway to'Guitar' which, I expect, moves the bass rolloff from around 40 hz up to maybe 80hz. Really got a good result. Still had a nice full bass sound (not muddy) but the boominess was gone. I kept that setting the next night in a different room with a trio and the guitarist said I had a really good sound which really allowed him to hear my notes better. You mention a 'muddy' sound. Probably not quite the same thing as a 'boomy' room but I would try that guitar setting and see if it helps. Good luck and let us know what you find out.
Click to expand...

Rick and Steve,
One of the distinct advantages of the EDB-2 (and the EDB-1) is that there's some overlap between the different frequency bands of it's EQ section, so to some degree you can "recover" some of the bass response
by raising the bass control, after you've essentially cut it using the three position roll off switch. I try to keep that switch set on Bass as much as I can because moving the rolloff from 40 to 80 isn't ideal, but
sometimes the room necessitates it.

Ric
 
#7
Thanks, I'll experiment with the bass/guitar settings. It might be a useful tip for with then sound descends into mud and feedback. My feeling is that the lifeline is a fairly good pick up, it just doesn't suit my bass which is a carved bass with a garbo gut G set. It's really thumpy and can sound full and rich, but the pick up seems to amplify all the boom and very little sweetness and even distorts a little when I dig into the strings. It does sound good with some mic blended in though, super good on occasion.

Anyway, I've been given the band as a birthday present and will post my comments on it and blending with the troll.

Thanks for your input.

Matt
 
#8
DB Slidefunk said:
Thanks, I'll experiment with the bass/guitar settings. It might be a useful tip for with then sound descends into mud and feedback. My feeling is that the lifeline is a fairly good pick up, it just doesn't suit my bass which is a carved bass with a garbo gut G set. It's really thumpy and can sound full and rich, but the pick up seems to amplify all the boom and very little sweetness and even distorts a little when I dig into the strings. It does sound good with some mic blended in though, super good on occasion.

Anyway, I've been given the band as a birthday present and will post my comments on it and blending with the troll.

Thanks for your input.

Matt
Click to expand...

Matt,

That's a very nice present. Let us know how it works.

Ric
 
#9
The band is a little hard to fit as it's really stiff when out the box but I managed to get it pretty snug on the bass. It doesn't look that pretty but I can deal with it. It's also nice not to have something wedged in the bridge adjuster. Also an angled jack lead is better as the cable gets in the way a bit.

Ok, so had a spur of the moment gig tonight. I'd already tested the band at home so didn't have to play around too much at the venue. This was a very spur of the moment gig in a smallish club. There wasn't enough PA channels to put the bass FOH so I had the MA45 a little away from me and turned up pretty loud.

Set up was. Jay Haide solid bass> Garbo gut G set> The Band & about 15% troll mic> EDB-2> AI coda III driving MA45.

Anyways, I really like the sound of the pick up. No feedback issues and a nice clear sound. The pianist complimented the sound of the bass right away and I really enjoyed the gig. I think the response is pretty flat and I boosted the low mids a little and blended with the troll it sounded great. The band compliments my bass and I can finally hear some of the goodness up loud that I only hear at home.

One realist and soundclip for sale..
 
#10
I've gotta say that now I've played with the band a bit more it really suits my bass and I'm a fan. It does need to be really tight which is hard to achieve on your own, it's a bit like not having someone to put a finger on a knot so you can tie it tight enough. I found a way around this though, by wedging my sons soft toy between the band and the C bout to apply a little leverage. It looks total comedy but I will get some hard foam or a small ball to use at gigs. That little bit of extra tightness makes all the difference between a slightly distant ringy sound and a present and full sound. I'm probably lucky that my bass has a very arched top and back so the pick ups sit in the right spot

The lifeline used to ring notes for ages and have a very muddy sound. The Gut G used to create a strange wolfy harmonic that sounded nasty and had to be notched out. The band makes the gut string sound nice and clear and picks up the chuff and click sounds when I dig in hard. Most importantly my playing is so much more confident now I can hear myself and so can the band. I think my playing had become a bit shy and very simple as anything pretty was lost in the mix.

The thing I like about the band is the EQ is pretty flat which means you can control it a lot with the EBD2. On its own I turn up the bass control a little and it sounds great. Adding a little troll mic brings an extra layer of richness. Both sounds have different and desirable qualities that blended together sound great and it's good to have found something that works with my bass which has been a bit of a tricky one to amplify.
 
#12
I'm using the EDB-2, Realist and Troll and digging the sound.
Just wondering if I would have been better off with a small 2-4 channel mixer instead of the EDB-2 for independent EQ any blending my vocals.
Are there any small mixers that address the piezo impedance matching ?
 
#13
kerrycares said:
I'm using the EDB-2, Realist and Troll and digging the sound.
Just wondering if I would have been better off with a small 2-4 channel mixer instead of the EDB-2 for independent EQ any blending my vocals.
Are there any small mixers that address the piezo impedance matching ?
Click to expand...


KC,
Well, there's the Acoustic Image Flex, that has two independent channels. It's more expensive. I'm sure there are mixers that have
a 1 Meg Ohm option, the Realist doesn't seem to be as fussy about input impedance. For it's price point, design and feature set, regardless of the
single channel the Headway is a pretty amazing instrument pre amp. It has controls that you're not going to find on a mic mixer.

Ric
 
#15
You can build some of the Quick'n'dirty preamps from Francis Deck. Basically one JFET-transistor and a few resistors and one or two capacitors with a battery (hold for a long time). The only problem is getting useable JFETs now.
If you have JFET-OpAmps in your mixer, you might only to replace one resistor per channel to get a higher impedance input.
 
#16
I did a gig this week with some pretty high stage volume and a huge PA system up very loud. I had a feeling the troll would be give feedback so put the lifeline back on before the gig. I was right, the troll was squealing so did a 50/50 mix of the band and lifeline. It's not as good as pairing with a mic but it's still good. The band has real clarity and the top register ring through, the lifeline gives in all a nice albeit artificial thump.
 

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