Truly, little else matters.
You either like what you hear or you don't. No two are exactly the same. Everything else is the number of angels that fit onto the head of a pin.
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The basic flaw in the p-bass
- Thread starter Ric5
- Start date
Truly, little else matters.
You either like what you hear or you don't. No two are exactly the same. Everything else is the number of angels that fit onto the head of a pin.
Won't turning up the treble cause bottom end to drop out on any bass? Is that not what treble is for in the first place? If used right can't treble be a good thing?
My opinion ... (have in mind I play active basses)
No, generally speaking I would expect it to adjust the treble content and leave the bass alone.
If you keep the volume constant, maybe you could say that more treble results in less bass.
No, it's to adjust the treble level.
Yes.
No, generally speaking I would expect it to adjust the treble content and leave the bass alone.
If you keep the volume constant, maybe you could say that more treble results in less bass.
No, it's to adjust the treble level.
Yes.
No, as we've discussed, the passive tone knob's largest role is simply to decrease treble from the signal or add it back in. However as you get down to the bottom of the sweep the tone cap adds some mids into the signal that were never there before, which sounds like a bass boost to lots of people, and led to the half-correct misconception that tone knobs take away treble to add bass or vice-versa. Really they mostly just take away treble, but again, at the bottom of the range you get a bonus mid-frequency bump that makes the instrument sit in a mix a bit better. And it's dependent on every circuit component (pickup, pots, tone caps) so each bass will be a little different in this way.
It's funny because neither of the two simple concepts that get parroted a lot (the control adds in lower frequencies when it removes or treble, or it just adds treble) is really correct because the control has a modal sort of behavior where one is true at one point and the other is true for the rest.
Caps can be changed to affect the degree of roll off too, if I'm phrasing that correctly...not sure of the precise terminology. My Classic 50's has a .01 cap, stock. I haven't had the chance to swap pups for my favored Fralins or 62 RI's yet, as I historically favor those paired with a .05 capacitor.
I noticed the .01 seems to have a wider frequency range with a smoother transition that begins immediately with turning the knob. So it comes off as a little brighter by comparison to how I usually have it wired, with a .05 cap, whose transition is not as gradual and seems to get most notably "brighter" about a quarter of a turn up. I'm thinking of retaining the .01 after the pickup swap this time around because I'm noticing (what appears to be) a retention of the high mid frequencies compared to .05 when the tone is rolled off. That could be this particular set of pickups, but I have also noticed the difference on a couple of single coil 51'RI basses I played recently that had the same pups, with different caps.
There seems to still be a fair bit of confusion in understanding that when a Precisions tone knob is turned all the way clockwise, that what people are hearing is pretty much the the pickups unaffected, natural sound and turning it counter clockwise is when the tone circuit comes into play. So down is up and up is down, so to speak. If I have any of this mixed up, I welcome the correction...I'm not exactly good with tech speak.
I noticed the .01 seems to have a wider frequency range with a smoother transition that begins immediately with turning the knob. So it comes off as a little brighter by comparison to how I usually have it wired, with a .05 cap, whose transition is not as gradual and seems to get most notably "brighter" about a quarter of a turn up. I'm thinking of retaining the .01 after the pickup swap this time around because I'm noticing (what appears to be) a retention of the high mid frequencies compared to .05 when the tone is rolled off. That could be this particular set of pickups, but I have also noticed the difference on a couple of single coil 51'RI basses I played recently that had the same pups, with different caps.
There seems to still be a fair bit of confusion in understanding that when a Precisions tone knob is turned all the way clockwise, that what people are hearing is pretty much the the pickups unaffected, natural sound and turning it counter clockwise is when the tone circuit comes into play. So down is up and up is down, so to speak. If I have any of this mixed up, I welcome the correction...I'm not exactly good with tech speak.
When the term P bass is used, it does not refer to a "one design" instrument.
The term accurately describes many different iterations comprised of differing components for any particular version of an instrument in production for over half a century, and for which countless distinct individual examples exist. Even if they were all of a standard design, they would not all be identical due to differences in the tolerances of the mass produced components.
My current 2011 Fender American Deluxe P is a much different instrument than my first, (which was a 1961 Fender P bass).
I don't have the '61 Fender P anymore, but I guarantee that if it was still in existence, (it is not), it would sound very different than my current Fender P bass.
Both instruments can be accurately described as a Fender P bass.
The 2011 iteration may be able to sound similar to the 1961, but not exactly the same. The 1961 P could never create the range of tones the modern bass does.
One may as well say the color red is better than the color blue. An artist might create beautiful art with only one, or the other, or both colors.
The term accurately describes many different iterations comprised of differing components for any particular version of an instrument in production for over half a century, and for which countless distinct individual examples exist. Even if they were all of a standard design, they would not all be identical due to differences in the tolerances of the mass produced components.
My current 2011 Fender American Deluxe P is a much different instrument than my first, (which was a 1961 Fender P bass).
I don't have the '61 Fender P anymore, but I guarantee that if it was still in existence, (it is not), it would sound very different than my current Fender P bass.
Both instruments can be accurately described as a Fender P bass.
The 2011 iteration may be able to sound similar to the 1961, but not exactly the same. The 1961 P could never create the range of tones the modern bass does.
One may as well say the color red is better than the color blue. An artist might create beautiful art with only one, or the other, or both colors.
Actually for the part in bold to be true the resistance between the signal and the capacitor that leads to ground (the tone cap) would have to be near-infinite. If you took the tone pot out altogether, it would be different than the fully-clockwise sound. It would probably be unpleasantly bright. No-load pots (that take themselves out of the circuit when turned all the way clockwise) are the only things that really get around this and I don't like the resulting sound. Very, very bright.
There are some tone pots that are by-pass right in the final portion of the rotation, so the bass sounds as natural as it can.
There's a video on YouTube that teaches one how to turn any tone pot into by-pass:
I must be crazy or deaf.... on my passive P basses...I always played with the tone wide open. On my active P basses, I find a nice middle tone I like and use the amp for the tweaking.
I am building a new Pass and originally was going to put no tone in but decided to go with a 6 position varitone just because...
I am building a new Pass and originally was going to put no tone in but decided to go with a 6 position varitone just because...
my friend has no load pots in his guitars, the difference is very subtle, I'm sure it would be similar on a P bass.
Entwistle used Hiwatts for a long time which can be extemely bright, I don't know which era he made that statement in but depending on what amp setup he was using, having the tone knob turned up could have made his signal SO top end heavy that it could have masked, or overtaken the bottom end in his signal
I've never been a fan of his playing or tone so I can't even reference his sound.
Brothers and Sisters!
I preach today from the gospel of Clarence: 1:1
"Let it be known unto the people of Sonis that a great gift has been delivered unto thee.
And let it be known to any men of wonderment - that in thine image - it too shall embody the basic flaw of man.
Go forth and seek the flaw that is your own. Place it in the mirror of thine P.
And behold - the shortcoming."
I preach today from the gospel of Clarence: 1:1
"Let it be known unto the people of Sonis that a great gift has been delivered unto thee.
And let it be known to any men of wonderment - that in thine image - it too shall embody the basic flaw of man.
Go forth and seek the flaw that is your own. Place it in the mirror of thine P.
And behold - the shortcoming."
That's the correction I was looking for. I know the pot has a load, but wasn't sure how to clarify, thanks. I should have stated that the signal is the closest to "unaffected" when the tone knob is engaged fully clockwise, assuming we're using the traditional 250k pots.
Exactly, I don't think you and I are in dissagreement here. The OP was complaining about not liking the sound of a P bass with the tone knob all the way on. I'm trying to educate him that its not a fault of the bass, its as simple as this: if you don't like the sound of a P-bass with the tone all the way up, don't play it with the tone all the way up.
