The basic flaw in the p-bass

[ggunn]

What may or may not be an interesting aside:

Alembic makes a drop-in preamp circuit that amps up the resonance peak right below the rolloff point, like 6dB or more. If you play a note and let it ring, and sweep the tone knob back and forth it sounds like you are playing through a wah pedal and rocking it.

 

[ggunn]

That post you quoted was from a few pages back. I think I have it figured out. Its more of a frequency shift than a boost.

Yeah, I apologize for that, It's just that that's where I was in the thread when I had my BFO, and I just skipped to the end. I shouldn't have quoted you (or anyone); what you said didn't have that much to do with it.

 

[thiocyclist]

So who knows if it's real, i.e., audible? I dunno from firsthand experience, but what I do know is that I was incorrect to have assumed out of hand that it had to be solely psychoacoustical in nature. As Mythbusters would say, it's not busted.

Have you listened yet?

https://soundcloud.com/thiocyclist/tone-knob-sweep-song-2

Check out what happens to the "Song 2" riff at the end.

 

[miles'tone]

Unless you get a P with a crap pickup. I totally bagged the pickup and tone knob on my 09 AmStd in favor of a 62 Original and Tonestyler. Glad I did, too. If I wanted the midscoop the original pickup had, I wouldn't have bought a Precision.

Fair enough.
I've only ever owned a P-bass with either the Fender Original or Lindy Fralin pickup and they were/are both great sounding no matter how the tone was dialled. (Very interesting thread you started about the Tonestyler by the way. Tempted to try one just for a look-see)

 

[lowphatbass]

Unless you get a P with a crap pickup. I totally bagged the pickup and tone knob on my 09 AmStd in favor of a 62 Original and Tonestyler. Glad I did, too. If I wanted the midscoop the original pickup had, I wouldn't have bought a Precision.

+1

The "modern" pickups found in a lot of the late model P's do tend to sound like a mud puddle that's frozen over.

 

[isher1992]

Fair enough.
I've only ever owned a P-bass with either the Fender Original or Lindy Fralin pickup and they were/are both great sounding no matter how the tone was dialled. (Very interesting thread you started about the Tonestyler by the way. Tempted to try one just for a look-see)

Just go buy yourself a cheap soldering iron, 60/40 rosin core, a DP6T rotary switch from Small Bear and make one. It's like 1/10th of the price.

 

[Growly Lytes]

If it were psychological it'd happen halfway down as soon as the treble signal was largely gone. But it only happens right at the last. It's real and I believe it's an effect of removing most of the resistance between the cap and the signal.

If thats the case there maybe a problem somewhere or its a cheap passive control unit.
Some passive controls dont do quat till they are turned up all the way.Some have a massive effect with a tiny turn.
Maybe just a thought of changing out those passive controls & putting in some hefty upgraded type ?

 

[dkelley]

If thats the case there maybe a problem somewhere or its a cheap passive control unit.
Some passive controls dont do quat till they are turned up all the way.Some have a massive effect with a tiny turn.
Maybe just a thought of changing out those passive controls & putting in some hefty upgraded type ?

Actually maybe I'm misunderstanding here buy I think possibly the guy you were responding to is correct... I believe the effect of the capacitance on the filter frequency will be nil if there is even a high resistance alternate path, is would be the case with a pot not quite all the way off. Instead the capacitor then works purely as a treble bleed.

 

[thiocyclist]

Actually maybe I'm misunderstanding here buy I think possibly the guy you were responding to is correct... I believe the effect of the capacitance on the filter frequency will be nil if there is even a high resistance alternate path, is would be the case with a pot not quite all the way off. Instead the capacitor then works purely as a treble bleed.

+1

 

[Rich McCoy]

The basic flaw in the p-bass

Quote from John Entwistle ... “Once you turn up the treble on a Precision, the bottom drops out.” “In big arenas, I wasn’t getting enough bottom end from the P-Basses when I had the treble all the way up.”

I re-discovered this last weekend...just a lot of midrange plunky noise and clicks and fret buzz.

This is why god invented the pick.

 

[warnergt]

The basic flaw in the p-bass

Quote from John Entwistle ... “Once you turn up the treble on a Precision, the bottom drops out.” “In big arenas, I wasn’t getting enough bottom end from the P-Basses when I had the treble all the way up.”

I went to my doctor, lifted my arm and said, "It hurts when I go like this."
He said, "Don't go like that."

 

[miles'tone]

The basic flaw in the p-bass

Quote from John Entwistle ... “Once you turn up the treble on a Precision, the bottom drops out.” “In big arenas, I wasn’t getting enough bottom end from the P-Basses when I had the treble all the way up.”

Going back to post #1 for a minute...

No matter how content us vintage P vibe lovers are with the original design, it is worth noting that John Entwistle wasn't alone in feeling this way about it. This is the reason Dimarzio invented the Model P pickup. They knew what a lot of bassists wanted from their Precisions at the time and spotted a gap in the market and boy did they fill it. Model Ps were suddenly everywhere.

 

[peledog]

A reverse P pickup does wonders for my tone.

 

[Ric5]

A reverse P pickup does wonders for my tone.

+1

 

[cnltb]

If thats the case there maybe a problem somewhere or its a cheap passive control unit.
Some passive controls dont do quat till they are turned up all the way.Some have a massive effect with a tiny turn.
Maybe just a thought of changing out those passive controls & putting in some hefty upgraded type ?

What would you recommend?

 

[jason the fox]

This thread has taken some crazy turns.

Rage, to sane debate, to valid theories, to valid info, to more rage, more sane debate and now some valid info and common ground.

The wonderful world of Talk Bass is a magical place.

I can't wait to throw a steak on the BBQ tonight.

 

[AMJBASS]

+1

The "modern" pickups found in a lot of the late model P's do tend to sound like a mud puddle that's frozen over.

I would tend to agree for the most part as well. Although, on the modern Jazz Basses(2011 and earlier) I do like the stock pickups. The custom shop pickups on the 2012 and up Precisions and Jazz basses are terrific. Balanced and a lot more "vintage" sounding for lack of a better word.

I still do not agree with Precision Basses sounding their best with the tone rolled off, and not with it full on. There are so many factors that come in to play.

 

[vstring3]

That is why in 1973 Entwistle switched to the Thunderbird, and Fenderbird basses so he could get more low end.

No, he wasn't looking to get "more low end"

"…by ‘Quadrophenia’ and Who By Numbers I was playing Gibson Thunderbirds. I felt I was getting stuck in a rut, using all the treble. So I changed to Sunn Coliseum power amps and a German preamp called a Stramp, and took up with the Thunderbirds. Eventually I found that I had developed a new playing style, then discovered Alembic basses and went back to playing with treble. I go backwards and forwards like that all the time."

"From about the time of the Who’s next album I used a cross between a Gibson Thunderbird and a Precision. I had it made for me with a Fender neck and the Thunderbird body, with Gibson bridge and fittings. Now I’m back to Precisions, but I’m happy with anything really, as long as it’s long-scale."

 

[Ric5]

I go backwards and forwards like that all the time

At the time he wanted more low end ... and later he changed his mind ... I have done the same.

 

[bassdude51]

I never knew that the Fender P Bass was so complicated! I never thought much more beyond then just playing the damn thing.

Now, I read this post and threads and I've got all these doubts now. "Should I roll of the treble or should I run it wide open?"

I've never had any problems with my P Basses until now! Geeezzzzsssss! "Thanks guys!"

As much as I like John Entwistle, that is up to about 1973, it's strange to me to have read his quote and complaint about low end lose in a P Bass! By the time he died, his sound had evolved to a terrible sound and tone which was almost totally de-void of low end frequency! So why did he care about what the treble roll off pot did to the P Bass?

Perhaps being nearly deaf had something to do with his final terrible bass guitar sound.

The P Bass is still a P Bass to me! I don't care to hear all the tech talk and see the graphs. It's way over my head!

I just plug and play!