The blues, and where to begin?

[LBS-bass]

But we are probably more “weird old wannabes copping some made up blues character lifestyle” than we are blues musicians.

From everything you said prior to this, I don't think so. If you get the intention of the way you approach the notes, and you can improvise with others to build dynamics with that intention, you are not a wannabe. You might be a person who wants to learn more, and it really doesn't matter what you know, because you clearly get what the wannabes don't get.

I don't view it as gatekeeping to comment that the Blues Brothers are probably not the best option for learning about blues music. They're not, for reasons described. I enjoyed their movie, but beyond that ... eh, they were sort of ok, great band, campy blues singers. I guess we have different feelings about their music, I wouldn't call it great myself. Their popularity did bring more attention to the genre, as I noted, so that's a positive aspect.

The problem is that people who don't know what they don't know are going to be standing in deep water very quickly, and that can land them in trouble. There's a little bit of snobbery in blues circles, which is unfortunate I suppose, but if you go to a jam and you don't know any of the historic and rootsy sort of stuff, it tells everyone a little something about you.

Now, that's not bad by itself. The jam I go to is quite forgiving and open to players of all stripes, and people there want to share their enthusiasm for the form, so there is a lot you can learn from them, but if you keep showing up to play the same blues-rock stuff over and over again it will begin to get tedious for the other players who are there to learn and grow. You probably don't want to be that guy at a blues jam. It's not gatekeeping to tell you that before you embarrass yourself.

I am definitely in the learn and grow stages - I do a fair job of passing myself off as a blues bassist when I have half a clue as to what's coming up next, but there's a lot about the historic roots of this music that I don't know. So I try to stay humble in those rooms and listen to what's being played so that I gain some familiarity with it. I do have some chops, so I get to go up with some of the better players sometimes, but they'll also stick me with the less experienced players because I'm tolerant and there to help, and they know I'm not in the same league as the hall of famers who show up.

 

[TyBo]

I agree that blues can seem like a lot to someone unfamiliar with the genre. The Blues Brothers, specifically, were kind of a fun act, and funny, but actually only played a couple of blues tunes for their movie and album - it's mostly R+B, really. Related, but not the same. And their presentation (Akroyd and Belushi) seems basically to be sort of goofing on a "blues" image - with respect intended, I believe (looking a bit like the Butterfield Band ). So for those reasons I don't see them as a great starting point for picking up on blues playing.

If someone does land on the Blues Brothers as a starting point, I wouldn't see it as disastrous, just not optimal, that's all.

I strongly agree about understanding the improvisational aspect of blues playing, gotta bring something of yourself to the proceedings.

(I'm also still in the learning and growing stages, even though I've been into it for some time. It's an ongoing thing.)

 

[LBS-bass]

I agree that blues can seem like a lot to someone unfamiliar with the genre.

I really think it's the opposite. Most people think that blues is simple and easy and will walk head first into a quagmire without even knowing they're standing in the middle of something huge and hard to define. If they stay there they'll eventually realize that whatever place they jumped in at is just one place out of many and they'll be fascinated enough by that to explore.

That's sort of what happened to me, TBH, so that's not necessarily a bad way to do things. I was lucky to connect with a bluesman who had been taught by one of the old-school guys, and he understood the importance of playing feel. Then I connected with another group who were just playing songs, and I knew already that's not really what I wanted to do with the blues. A lot of folks aren't lucky like I was to get an experience early that shows them that.

I think what's described by the guy who went to NO is an extremely immersive experience that isn't quite what most folks will be up for, but you can still get plenty of immersion by going to the right places where the music is played and connecting with the right people there.

I'm sure the rock people I play with don't really understand why I do this blues thing anymore than I understood it when learning rock songs was all I did.

Anyway, I'm going to shut up now.

 

[TyBo]

Yeah, I think lots of people view blues as just stupid simple ... but if they stand in the quagmire for a bit, it can start to look pretty deep and wide ... which it is. A sax player buddy I grew up with, who's played blues (and jazz also ... "the music", as they say) for decades, has been a great resource for me, just hanging around the band he played with (a Bammy winning, Grammy nominated blues band), and soaking up perspective from him. That and going to see lots of real deal blues players for years and years - I think live playing, even as a listener/viewer, can be a real source of knowledge and inspiration. Also, listening from A to Z with blues recordings all the way back and forward is a great thing, very entertaining too, imo. More than many people will want to do, but worthwhile. Playing with local blues guys can be good too, of course, though it varies

N'awlins immersion can't be beat, but without that option ... there are ways to get into it ... Don't gimme no sheet music, gotta feel it. Get back on that rhythm man, as Taj Mahal used to say ...

 

[pepj]

Depends how deep people are asking you to go but its basically nailing grooves.
If your exposure isn't with people who can nail a shuffle or swing it well, it might seem like its weird stuff, but you need a drummer and a keyboard player well versed in their blues style and you need to hang on.
In that sense, its easy.

If you come from jamming in a bassment with an original band..then yep you may well find you have huge huge gaps.

 

[Jason Sypher]

This record had a profound effect on how I learned to play the bass in different blues settings.

 

[AGCurry]

There's a little bit of snobbery in blues circles, which is unfortunate I suppose, but if you go to a jam and you don't know any of the historic and rootsy sort of stuff, it tells everyone a little something about you.

Speaking of snobbery with some irony:

I did a pickup gig a few years ago - Hammond organ, guitarist, and drummer, and I was on bass guitar.

EVERY freaking song they did was a 12-bar shuffle. On a break, I talked to the (rather young) guitarist and said something like "It would be nice to play something a little different, like maybe an 8-bar blues, or a blues ballad." He laid into me, basically telling me I didn't know anything about the blues.

I could have argued, but ... you can't fix ignorant on a 15-minute break.

 

[LBS-bass]

He laid into me, basically telling me I didn't know anything about the blues.

That's the problem. People know about their version of the blues, or they know about blues-adjacent pop and someone told them that's the blues, or whatever, and they'll vigorously defend that little piece of the pie as though it's the entire thing. Anything more I say here will get me into hot water so I'm going back to shutting up.

 

[jerry]

That's the problem. People know about their version of the blues, or they know about blues-adjacent pop and someone told them that's the blues, or whatever, and they'll vigorously defend that little piece of the pie as though it's the entire thing. Anything more I say here will get me into hot water so I'm going back to shutting up.

I see that a bit on Talkbass, arbiters of genres of music.

 

[LBS-bass]

I see that a bit on Talkbass, arbiters of genres of music.

Yeah, don't get me started. Genres are descriptors, they aren't perfect but they give us ways to communicate some basic info about music. The problem with descriptors is that once they're created, people take them as gospel truths and want to hold tight to them so that they never change. So you have a genre that gets a label and suddenly there's no experimentation within that genre anymore, because anything done different is less than sacrosanct.

I think it's good to know something about what's within the genre and where it all fits in the overall scheme of things, but it's helpful to not close things off so that nothing else gets let in.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Speaking of snobbery with some irony:

I did a pickup gig a few years ago - Hammond organ, guitarist, and drummer, and I was on bass guitar.

EVERY freaking song they did was a 12-bar shuffle. On a break, I talked to the (rather young) guitarist and said something like "It would be nice to play something a little different, like maybe an 8-bar blues, or a blues ballad." He laid into me, basically telling me I didn't know anything about the blues.

I could have argued, but ... you can't fix ignorant on a 15-minute break.

Rhiannon has been calling this up lately. Just a simple but irregular blues (possibly my favorite are the odd measure or free floating forms). I think this is in the morning at Harvard! Educamated blues.

 

[PWolverine]

So many great suggestions already. I always loved BB King Live in Africa. His performance and energy is amazing. I only managed to see him live twice in Australia when he came down to Australia in the late 90s and then again just before he passed.

 

[TyBo]

BB was smooth - I saw him at a concert where he was playing his big hit, "The Thrill is Gone", and he broke a string while soloing. He went up to the mic, not missing a beat, and started singing. "The string is gone" , while looking over to his roadie ... who came out and replaced the string even as BB continued to sing, not even removing the guitar. Crowd laughed and applauded, turned a minor mishap into an asset, basically. What a pro!

 

[eddiemac]

B.B. King could pull a new string out of his coat pocket, unwind the old broken one, put the new one on and tune it while playing fills and singing and be ready to go right into the next song. He may have taken advantage of techs in the later years, but he didn't have to.

 

[jerry]

B.B. King could pull a new string out of his coat pocket, unwind the old broken one, put the new one on and tune it while playing fills and singing and be ready to go right into the next song. He may have taken advantage of techs in the later years, but he didn't have to.

I've played with a few guys that could do that, change their own string while singing before the song ends. A skill that comes from thousands of gigs.

 

[LBS-bass]

I've played with a few guys that could do that, change their own string while singing before the song ends. A skill that comes from thousands of gigs.

 

[MichelD]

This record had a profound effect on how I learned to play the bass in different blues settings.

That's cool as a novelty but I wouldn't want to listen to a whole set of someone playing like that. But there is something to learn there for faster tunes. There is always something to learn.

I play with a couple guys who play old acoustic blues songs from the 20s and 30s that were mostly recorded by a single guitarist/singer. I usully keep the bass backing really really basic.

 

[TyBo]

Smooth. Not having a roadie , the times I've had a string break while playing guitar (never had it happen on bass, unsurprisingly), I'll just keep playing til the song ends - don't want to lose the momentum by fumbling around with my mind not on the music. Just gotta find notes that are there, not go for the missing ones. No problem!

 

[BlueRock]

My dad had a lot of early blues recordings with no bass so in a lot of ways to me the fundamental sound of the blues doesn't have bass. When I started playing I must have subconsciously questioned whether or not blues really needs bass. Forty-five years later I don't know if that's true or not but I do follow the premise that if I don't try bring something extraordinary to playing blues bass it'll sound better just to lay out. The older I get extraordinary more and more means saying what needs to be said in as few notes as possible.

 

[MichelD]

I like the paralleled bass and guitar on this one: