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the continual search for power...

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Fine Cut

Dec 5, 2007
619
7
Rocky Mount, NC
#1
let's talk about watts...how many are necessary, how many are enough, how many are too much, how many can you take before your ears explode?

Yes, all of these questions are extremely subjective, but it's something i've found myself asking as i plan to upgrade my rig next month. i find myself in the position of your average teenage metal bass player who feels that the amp with the higher power rating is the one he needs. period. end of story. but at the same time, i realize this isn't truly the case. it's about getting the tone you're after, but still being able to be heard. should i spend $900 for the 450 watt 4x10 rig, or spend $300 less for the 200 watt 4x10 rig, and spend the money i save on another cab and be groovy?

i'm sure many more than just me have been in this situation, so what's your decision making process? when looking for a new head/rig, how do you weight the different factors of wattage vs. price vs. size? do you factor in new gear w/ warranty vs. used gear w/o warranty?

just curious to see you guy's thought processes when a new rig is in order...
 
#3
I was in a similar position to you a short while ago. While I was researching I came by this website which I found helpful: Invalid Link Removed

Basically that extra 250 watts will only get you just over an extra 3db of headroom. Another thing to consider is that the bigger head may only be able to output 450watts into a 4ohm connection, so unless you have a 4ohm cab you will more likely get something around 275watts into an 8ohm cab.

In relation to to your ears exploding question, 180db is where hearing tissue death occurs and to produce that (according to the calculator) you would need more than 100,000,000,000,000watts.

Read a million reviews and if possible try out the gear.

I bought ex display. Its the best of both worlds, stores will still likely uphold the same warranty period and you get a reduction since its been used.
 
#4
UncleJam, the $900 rig is a Peavey Tour 450 head and a Peavey 410. i'm looking at these together because i've had the chance to try them out together and was very impressed with the sound.

the $600 rig is a used Hartke HA2000 head w/ a used Carvin 410 cab for sale at a local shop. like the peavey, it too sounds great :rolleyes: , so i'm stuck with a decision here...

and Defacto, thanks for the website! and the headroom info also. that's mainly what i'm worried about. i'm upgrading from a 100w 2x15 setup that sounds like a donkey fart (seriously...it actually sounds like a donkey passing gas), so i'm looking to gain headroom. i know the 200 amp will be plenty with a good 410, but i'm just bouncing around in my mind whether or not the extra 250w is worth $300...

anyone else have any advice here?
 
#7
Bearing in mind I refuse to play in any situation which requires hellacious stage volumes, I've found around 400 watts to be fine and that's pretty well the power I've been using with various amps for the last 15 years (currently MarkBass SA450).

I use a single 8 ohm cab (either an Eden 2x10 or a custom made Black Widow 15 loaded cab) so most the time so I'm actually getting around 225-250 watts. This is for gigs ranging through fairly loud Classic Rock, Blues, faux Jazz, Country, Jam Band, etc. With the Black Widow, I've never not been loud enough.

If I do (rarely) feel the need for a little more, I'll just add another 8 ohm cab to get full power.

As another poster said, it's important to use quality speakers - while a lot sound ok at moderate volumes (e.g. testing 'em out in the store), it's when you start pushing 'em a bit that separates the good stuff from the o.k. stuff.
 
#8
I thought power was less of in issue for a long time, until I blew up one of my cabs under-powering it. Now I wouldn't consider buying a head at less than 500 watts. Its really nice to have your amp at 25% and have all of the volume need, instead of maxing it, seeing the clipping light go on every note you hit, and eventually having something blow up.

Another word of advice. Don't buy peavey or hartke stuff. Its passable, but a year down the road, you will be trying to sell it on craigslist for some nicer gear.

The best stuff out there right now is markbass and genz benz in my opinion, and they aren't even expensive. Get a little mark III, or the genz benz shuttle 6.0... I feel like genz benz would probably have a better metal tone (I use markbass myself). Check craigslist for used stuff, because you can probably find a little mark II for like $450-$500. If you go with one of those, you will probably never have to buy another head again.

If you have a good line on a used carvin 4x10, that is probably worth getting with any head. Seriously though - do some research on here, and you will hear nothing but glowing revues for markbass and genz benz, and there is a reason for that.
 
#10
JFK838 said:
I thought power was less of in issue for a long time, until I blew up one of my cabs under-powering it. Now I wouldn't consider buying a head at less than 500 watts. Its really nice to have your amp at 25% and have all of the volume need, instead of maxing it, seeing the clipping light go on every note you hit, and eventually having something blow up.
Click to expand...

Oh, God, here we go... :hiding:

-jb
 
#11
JFK838 said:
I thought power was less of in issue for a long time, until I blew up one of my cabs under-powering it. Now I wouldn't consider buying a head at less than 500 watts. Its really nice to have your amp at 25% and have all of the volume need, instead of maxing it, seeing the clipping light go on every note you hit, and eventually having something blow up.
Click to expand...

+1. Having headroom also keeps your tone from suffering when pushing the amp or speakers too hard. If you're looking for serious power, excellent tone, and a reasonable price, look into the Carvin B1500. It's all you'll ever need and then some!
 
#12
There are a lot of threads in the faq debunking "underpowering." I'd suggest looking over them, good reading.

Based on vague recollections of lurking on ebay that price seems too high for the Peavey.
 
#13
$900 should get you all the rig a death-metal maniac could ever need, but I agree, the 2 rigs you listed are not one of them. Used gear rules, and a base rule of 300 watts and a 4x10 is pretty safe. Oh, the underpowering thing, bunk.
 
#14
Kind of depends on music style and live vs studio too. A live death metal gig has imo less of a concern about tone as A. It's most likely gonna be effects heavy anyway & B. it'll be rather hard to separate amongst the guitar and bass drum. Based solely on my listening and concert going experience.
 
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