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The Four Most Influential Bassists?

#141
With regard to the discussion surrounding Graham and Clarke, it's funny how back in the mid-seventies nobody ever ever referred to their respective techniques as "slapping". That term came about much later on when I honestly think the actual technique became a bit more bombastic. I remember clearly the first time I saw Clarke back in 1974 and I was sitting very close to the stage. He was pulling, snapping, and thumb popping on the strings in a much more sublime manner than many of these latter day ham-fisted adherents to the style that one finds all over YouTube.
 
#142
Yo, Doc- True...Graham was a known entity way before the Bro Js did Mellow Madness w/ Quincy Jones. That said, they were playing together in a band at a very young age...like Graham 's early situation (w/ his mom?), no drummer = thump 'n' pop.
 
#143
JimK said:
True...Graham was a known entity way before the Bro Js did Mellow Madness w/ Quincy Jones. That said, they were playing together in a band at a very young age...like Graham 's early situation (w/ his mom?), no drummer = thump 'n' pop.
Click to expand...

That could be, but my gut tells me that Johnson has too much ego to admit that Graham was first. Back in the Seventies, Graham Central Station and The Brothers Johnson were on tour together, and Louis was quoted as saying that he was disappointed in Graham's set. Maybe he was disappointed, but in that context it came off as jealousy.
 
#144
I grew up in the 50's. Motown and Atlantic artists caught my attention at first. So Jamerson and Babbitt, during the 60's I leaned towards the funk and Graham and Willie Weeks, in the latter part of the 60's and into the 70's I really dug what Gil Scot-Heron was doing so Danny Bowens became a fave along with Paul Jackson and Alphonso Johnson and Ralphe Armstrong and Doug Rauch, then here comes Bootsy and Boogie and Marshall Jones and Lamont Johnson. I'm like Heinz 57 varieties lol lol lol
 
#145
JimK said:
I hadda go back for a refresh & look at Doc's original post...

I see Graham is there because he "invented slap".
I recall a Chuck Rainey interview in a '70s Guitar Player mag (Merle Travis is on the cover...pick it up on EBay)-
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_kw=Guitar+Player+Magazine+Merle+Travis

Rainey mentions Monk Montgomery as the 1st EB slapper; Monk was also an URBassist & no doubt was familiar with Slam Stewart, Milt Hinton, et al & incorporated slap into his EB playing. IIRC, Rainey does go on to say Graham & Louis Johnson, working independently of one another, developed slap for modern electric bass (Anthony Jackson may have said someything similar in an '80s issue of Guitar Player/Robert Fripp is on the cover; The AJ article/interview is excellent & should be the standard for Bass Player magazine's articles.). Pick this one up, too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUITAR-PLAY...-RONNIE-EARL-RARE-/280695813679#ht_2498wt_684

Anyway, I'm rambling...so Entwistle for Rock? I don't disagree, although-
I'm a product of that time & I would say Jack Bruce was always mentioned...John Paul Jones, too...McCartney, yes (if you knew he was The Beatles' bassist). ;)

In the aforemnetioned Anthony Jackson interview, AJ sez Jack Bruce was not an influence...but Jack Cassidy (Jeffereson Airplabne) was.
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I listened to Monk Montgomery's work back then and would love to hear what people though he played that resembled Graham. Graham was already recorded thumping before "Thank You..." hit... and that was a shot heard 'round the bass world IIRC.

The whole Graham/ Johnson thing... I don't buy the came up with it independently. Maybe a guy could come up in California at the time when Sly & The Family Stone were in their heyday (for years) and be completely unaware of what was going on. Maybe he and his brother didn't watch TV or listen to the radio. Which begs the question...

who thumped first... Louis or George? Maybe George invented the technique?
:D
 
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#149
Brad Johnson said:
I listened to Monk Montgomery's work back then and would love to hear what people though he played that resembled Graham. Graham was already recorded thumping before "Thank You..." hit... and that was a shot heard 'round the bass world IIRC.

The whole Graham/ Johnson thing... I don't buy the came up with it independently. Maybe a guy could come up in California at the time when Sly & The Family Stone were in their heyday (for years) and be completely unaware of what was going on. Maybe he and his brother didn't watch TV or listen to the radio. Which begs the question...

who thumped first... Louis or George? Maybe George invented the technique?
:D
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Remember, The Brothers Johnson were a cover band and sidemen before they met Quincy Jones. The odds of a r&b cover band active in the Sixties and Seventies not covering Sly and the Family Stone and later Graham Central Station are pretty doggone low. BTW, I have seen pictures of the Brothers when they were little, they played with a drummer.
 
#151
Dr. Cheese said:
Remember, The Brothers Johnson were a cover band and sidemen before they met Quincy Jones. The odds of a r&b cover band active in the Sixties and Seventies not covering Sly and the Family Stone and later Graham Central Station are pretty doggone low. BTW, I have seen pictures of the Brothers when they were little, they played with a drummer.
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I know.
:D
 
#152
My choices are definitely going to echo a lot of others that have been stated already.

JAMES JAMERSON - His sound was integral to the Motown sound. His grooves could make you dance, but were balanced with a lyricism that on it's own danced with the melodies of the wide range of Motown vocalists. There are definitely other R&B bassists whose contributions are very remarkable: Duck Dunn, Tommy Cogbill, Bob Babbitt and Chuck Rainey. But it seems that Jamerson was at the head of this class and stood out with the most prolific output.

LARRY GRAHAM - I'm not a big fan of the technique that he helped to popularize, but when Larry Graham thumped the strings on his bass with his thumb, he really did create something revolutionary. His technique has been often been imitated, but I think that Larry had a musicality that transcended the thumping and popping. And when you listen to some of Sly & The Family Stone's best recorded work it doesn't necessarily feature Larry's trademark thumb work. Like the situation with Jamerson, there are others that came in Larry Graham's wake, like Louis Johnson, Bernard Edwards and others. But it was Larry Graham that really blazed the trail.

JACO PASTORIUS - Again, another revolutionary. He had a classic foundation in R&B from playing the Chitlin Circuit, so he could groove amazingly well. But it was his decision to take musical cues from horn players that set him apart as a soloist. And in the process he brought the fretless bass to a much wider audience. We've seen plenty of Jaco clones following his groundbreaking solo debut. But Jaco's voice in this regard has been a standout in terms of his style.

PAUL McCARTNEY - Would I call Macca a virtuoso bassist? No. But his influence a bassist is more far reaching than many realize. Because he managed to revolutionize the concept of the songwriter as bassist. He was a songwriter, but his position as a bassist gave him insight into a number of things: how the bass sat in the mix and the musical function it served. That meant bass parts that would function as a melody element, or very often as a counter melody. As songwriters Sting and Nick Lowe come from this school, too. And players like Bruce Thomas, Andrew Bodnar and Graham Maby are just some of the players that have put some of Macca's melodic lessons into practice.
 
#153
ShoeManiac said:
My choices are definitely going to echo a lot of others that have been stated already.

JAMES JAMERSON - His sound was integral to the Motown sound. His grooves could make you dance, but were balanced with a lyricism that on it's own danced with the melodies of the wide range of Motown vocalists. There are definitely other R&B bassists whose contributions are very remarkable: Duck Dunn, Tommy Cogbill, Bob Babbitt and Chuck Rainey. But it seems that Jamerson was at the head of this class and stood out with the most prolific output.

LARRY GRAHAM - I'm not a big fan of the technique that he helped to popularize, but when Larry Graham thumped the strings on his bass with his thumb, he really did create something revolutionary. His technique has been often been imitated, but I think that Larry had a musicality that transcended the thumping and popping. And when you listen to some of Sly & The Family Stone's best recorded work it doesn't necessarily feature Larry's trademark thumb work. Like the situation with Jamerson, there are others that came in Larry Graham's wake, like Louis Johnson, Bernard Edwards and others. But it was Larry Graham that really blazed the trail.

JACO PASTORIUS - Again, another revolutionary. He had a classic foundation in R&B from playing the Chitlin Circuit, so he could groove amazingly well. But it was his decision to take musical cues from horn players that set him apart as a soloist. And in the process he brought the fretless bass to a much wider audience. We've seen plenty of Jaco clones following his groundbreaking solo debut. But Jaco's voice in this regard has been a standout in terms of his style.

PAUL McCARTNEY - Would I call Macca a virtuoso bassist? No. But his influence a bassist is more far reaching than many realize. Because he managed to revolutionize the concept of the songwriter as bassist. He was a songwriter, but his position as a bassist gave him insight into a number of things: how the bass sat in the mix and the musical function it served. That meant bass parts that would function as a melody element, or very often as a counter melody. As songwriters Sting and Nick Lowe come from this school, too. And players like Bruce Thomas, Andrew Bodnar and Graham Maby are just some of the players that have put some of Macca's melodic lessons into practice.
Click to expand...

Other than putting in Entwhistle for Graham I agree. Slap in my mind represents a very small percentage of recorded music. It does however dominate Guitar Center bass rooms.
 
#154
I think that perhaps I understated Larry Graham's impact. His contribution to slap is absolutely remarkable. That's undeniable. But he's also been at the forefront of helping define funk as a musical style, and not just with the slap technique alone. Certainly, that technique is very prevalent in the funk genre. But I think that his contribution overall to funk is beyond significant.
 
#156
jsbarber said:
The double bass guys were doing it decades earlier...
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...on a different instrument.

I saw this line of discussion earlier on in the thread. Slap technique on the double bass is well established, and jazz players like Milt Hinton were doing this decades before Larry Graham or Louis Johnson. But were those players doing so on electric bass guitar? No. While the two instruments are tuned the same way, the construction of both the upright bass and the bass guitar are very different. And they both call for very different techniques. The only really similarities between upright slap and bass guitar slap is that they're percussive. Beyond that the physical properties of each instrument call for something very different. Just check out some footage of a player like Lee Rocker on the upright. Upright slap is a very different technique.

Larry Graham pioneered the slap technique on the bass guitar while the instrument was still in its infancy. And I think it's more than likely that he didn't have the wealth of musical knowledge regarding upright slap at his disposal when he started using that technique on the bass guitar.
 
#157
ShoeManiac said:
I think that perhaps I understated Larry Graham's impact. His contribution to slap is absolutely remarkable. That's undeniable. But he's also been at the forefront of helping define funk as a musical style, and not just with the slap technique alone. Certainly, that technique is very prevalent in the funk genre. But I think that his contribution overall to funk is beyond significant.
Click to expand...

Arguably the greatest funk bassist ever isn't a slapper.
 
#159
StrangerDanger said:
Arguably the greatest funk bassist ever isn't a slapper.
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This should be good... who might this be? Funk comes in a lot of flavors.

They'd have to be "better" than Kool Bell, Aaron Mills, Nathaniel Phillips, Rocco Prestia, Marshall Jones, Paul Jackson, Fudgie Kae, Ray Ransom, Bootsy and the Funkadelic crew: Skeet, Boogie, heck... Danny Wilson w/Jeff Lorber...all of whom were perfect IMO for the flavor they played.
:cool:

People often mistake chops for funk. They don't neccesarily jibe.
 
#160
Brad Johnson said:
This should be good... who might this be? Funk comes in a lot of flavors.

They'd have to be "better" than Kool Bell, Aaron Mills, Nathaniel Phillips, Rocco Prestia, Marshall Jones, Paul Jackson, Fudgie Kae, Ray Ransom, Bootsy and the Funkadelic crew: Skeet, Boogie, heck... Danny Wilson w/Jeff Lorber...all of whom were perfect IMO for the flavor they played.
:cool:

People often mistake chops for funk. They don't neccesarily jibe.
Click to expand...

He is. His name is George Porter Jr.
 

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