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The gripmaster

Some info and i'll keep it simpleif some what long, but his subject is never easy or short. Those that know of me know what is coming:eyebrow:

The human hand is a wonderfull piece of enginering it has the ability for power, touch and dexterity as well as sensitivity to many sensations due to the volume of sensory receptors in the tips nerve endings.
If we understand that its function was never to play guitar but it has the ability to adapt, then we will see some variations of its ability, how it is prone to injury, handles recovery and how disease can affect it.
It is also prone to refered symptoms because of off its sensory capabilites and the fact it is where nerves end. That means you can have a problem anywhere between the neck and the fingertips and only feel the sensation in the fingers, not where the damage is.

Your hands are really not designed to play guitar, it is a trade off. So many talk about just playing bass as the way to train then, but that is also the way to damage them, remember playing bass is an adaption for them. So many players talk about personal things that have worked for them, THAT IS FOR THEM, and so a personal history of the hands is needed to quantify their experience.

Now if you work using keyboard skills your hand will be different to say a carpenter. If you work as a teacher your hands will be different than an assembler. So someone that uses keyboard skills daily will have a completly different make up neuro-mechanics make up as to say the the carpenter. So the hands will have had a different work out before they come to the bass.

The carpenter will have a full range of power on the Ulnar side(the little finger and ring finger side) than the keyboard user. The carpenter will have have more dexterity in the radius side (thumb and forefinger) because of the variation and power required in movement. If you understand the hand has two sides, power on the little and ring finger side, dexterity on the thumb and forefinger side, and each can share the middle finger. Put a coin on the table, pick it up, look at it. You are now using the radial side for dexterity and as a rule the little finger and ring finger curl to the palm to get out the way....that is dexterity.
If you pick up someting like a hammer, baseball bat golf club and swing it, you will be holding mainly with the little finger and ring finger with the middle joining in.....that is power.

Each one of these sides has its own nerve (ulnar and radial) and there own muscles and attachments. The main bulk of finger muscle is in the forearms, the fingers have attachments that are worked from this area.

That is two different skills in two different sides with different nerve paths with different muscle groups. So they can be targeted by exercise away from playing, not replace playing, but enhance playing. Not for all because your hand history is personal to you. Your hands ideally want to last a lifetime. So when someone claims they have done this or that for 20 years and had no problems that is not a proving point, it means they have had no problems. If after 5, 10, 15, 20 years after that statement they they develop serious problems then the statement was false.

So how do we know if problems will occur?
Well we don't, again its personal hand history, but we do know what we should and should not do.

Since body mechanics see the movement as muscular leverage, the fingers move because the muscles act and transfer the energy on them, it is in fact athletic movement and needs to be viewed as such. Not cardio-vascular, so you won't feel out of breath, but you will fatigue in someway.
It is over use and mis use that injure hands the most and where better to find that in playing a bass guitar. The hours of practise put in are the over use, the strains they encounter in stretches and spans are the mis use.

The hand has a natural curl, if you look at it now you will see this. So if you put your hand on the neck of a bass it is on the strings, so light pressure will fret the note. Now for the athletic bit, you need to lift your finger away and apply another finger. Some players see the problem of finger not going down fasst or properly, when it is in fact fingers not lifting away fast enough or properly to give the next finger room to manovere. So it is not to develop a grip action, but a lifting action.
This is a one way action, you lift the finger away, relax it and it comes back, slight pressure to fret, relax it, the pressure is released, then lift away, relax it and it comes back, slight pressure to fret, relax, lift a way and so on. So the development of a grip is not the way to go, as that plane of movement is the little bit of pressure to fret, and that is there already. It is the development of lifting away and then relaxing to let the finger come back is the movement that is needed. That being the case, how can a grip master device en-hance this movement? Well it can't it only works in one plane, the opposite of what is needed.....unless you have weak movement in that plane to start with.

As part of a short warm up with the knowlege that playing will follow to give a fuller range of movement, i see and can find now evidence that it is harmfull. On its own away from this situation it is.
Personal hand history is the key, some players have had more than enough hand use from daily life before they even pick up their bass, and then they add more use. Compared to 20 years ago hand use in daily life has increased tenfold from early age to adulthood. Computer games, keyboards and mouse, mobile phones, texting, remote controls, push pad this, keypad that, life is about the hands in Western society.

Most people need to get the days use out of their hands, not carry on by playing. So gentle stretches warm ups and massage will help prepare them before playing..... everytime and i mean evertime. There is not one situation i can think of where this is not of benifit to the hands.

So you want your hands for life, look after them and remember playing is an adaption of their use, not the only one.:)

Excellent post!

Much better advice here than "Placebo effect, maybe?";)

So I guess it comes down to moderation, as I said? And like anything to do with training the body, the best advice would be to listen to your body, and stop as soon as you feel any discomfort or pain?
 
Hello, dude.

So you're saying that using the gripmaster before I do my warm-ups before I do my gig/practice, will not help me one little bit?

My physio and I definatly think they do.

Not wanting to start an argument here, or anything. Again, i'm not educated in it like you are, so have no frame of reference. Just chucking across my personal opinion.



using a gripmaster lightly before a gig would be the equivalent of stretching before a run or something, it'll get the blood flowing to your forearms/ready your hands and that along with some placebo effect (dont get me started on that with working out haha) it will help you a little.


life is just a bunch of senses you perceive and calculate in your brain then react to them. so who cares if your actually "helping" or not. it helps if you feel it does, since the only thing your really trying to do by "warming up" is reduce hand pain/cramping/whatever during the gig. if it helps - do it. it'd be the same as doing some pushups before your gig though - just get the juices flowin' :D
 
Excellent post!

Much better advice here than "Placebo effect, maybe?";)

So I guess it comes down to moderation, as I said? And like anything to do with training the body, the best advice would be to listen to your body, and stop as soon as you feel any discomfort or pain?

Mmmm i find no Placebo effects in this type of thing because the physical side will expose it in the end.

Set up a warm up that will tell you something, a routine that can be repeated time after time.

Mine is about five minutes on gigs, ten minutes in practice.
I rub my hands and do some stretches and clutchs( make gentle fists) then i run a scale pattern i developed starting on the 12th fret.
I run this pattern to its completion as a rule.
Because i do this routine i have instant information at hand about how my hands are, the condition they are in. My routine is in all extents a warm up to inform me how my hands compare to all the previous times i have done this. My playing starts easy, as are the lines i play more easy at the start of a set and get progressively more involved as the set progresses and i warm up. The set is structured so for all, that there are suitable down areas for rest and recovery.:cool:
 
using a gripmaster lightly before a gig would be the equivalent of stretching before a run or something, it'll get the blood flowing to your forearms/ready your hands and that along with some placebo effect (dont get me started on that with working out haha) it will help you a little.


life is just a bunch of senses you perceive and calculate in your brain then react to them. so who cares if your actually "helping" or not. it helps if you feel it does, since the only thing your really trying to do by "warming up" is reduce hand pain/cramping/whatever during the gig. if it helps - do it. it'd be the same as doing some pushups before your gig though - just get the juices flowin' :D

Mmmmmm..... warming up is to enable the body to function to its potential, to prepare it for the effort ahead, not really about reducing or preventing problems.
I know i maybe quoting you literally but some of the advice offered is naive at best especially given your qualifications.:)
 
Mmmmmm..... warming up is to enable the body to function to its potential, to prepare it for the effort ahead, not really about reducing or preventing problems.
I know i maybe quoting you literally but some of the advice offered is naive at best especially given your qualifications.:)

huh?

warming up with pretty much anything is about preventing injuries, that's the entire point.

Pro athletes wouldnt waste the energy stretching if they didnt need it to prevent injuries.
 
huh?

warming up with pretty much anything is about preventing injuries, that's the entire point.

Pro athletes wouldnt waste the energy stretching if they didnt need it to prevent injuries.

Pro athletes warm up to maximize performance, the fact that this helps mimimize injuries is a by product of warming up. Since a pro athletes intention is to win, warming up, amongst other things, best prepares them for this.
Warming down helps prevent injuries, and since that is post performance it's main point is to help prevent damage and aid better recovery of the body. If the warm up was to prevent injuries, and this was the athletes intention, i would question any athletes mental thinking because they are not focused on the task that is coming.:)

The fact musicians are artistic to the extent that they will let aches and pains go, even to the effect that they would still play even through pain, give them a different mental thought process. The two bear great resemblence in body mechanics, but are poles apart in the mental side.:)
 
Pro athletes warm up to maximize performance, the fact that this helps mimimize injuries is a by product of warming up. Since a pro athletes intention is to win, warming up, amongst other things, best prepares them for this.
Warming down helps prevent injuries, and since that is post performance it's main point is to help prevent damage and aid better recovery of the body. If the warm up was to prevent injuries, and this was the athletes intention, i would question any athletes mental thinking because they are not focused on the task that is coming.:)

The fact musicians are artistic to the extent that they will let aches and pains go, even to the effect that they would still play even through pain, give them a different mental thought process. The two bear great resemblence in body mechanics, but are poles apart in the mental side.:)


see now you're losing the point in the word performance.

what kind of performance?

what kind of "warming up"?

You're being far too vague to be trying to argue against me with this. be more specific, so I can tell you what you're confused about ;)
 
see now you're losing the point in the word performance.

what kind of performance?

what kind of "warming up"?

You're being far too vague to be trying to argue against me with this. be more specific, so I can tell you what you're confused about ;)

LOL, I am not arguing with anyone just stating some points, if it seems vague then like i said you are being naive about the understanding of the situation. Your first reply never asked any ground work questions about how and why it was used, you came to the conclussion, after some great info by the way, on your own.

soooo in short.

NO. just play bass ^_^

Then you suggest it is not real but in the mind, but aren't sure

Placebo effect maybe?
One point on placebo, if it was a placebo, then telling some so takes it away, so in effect you have taken away they good it was doing if that was the case.

Then you say it is like a warm, and since warms ups are good (then using the gripmaster must be good) you now give situations of where it can and how it should be used,

using a gripmaster lightly before a gig would be the equivalent of stretching before a run or something, it'll get the blood flowing to your forearms/ready your hands and that along with some placebo effect (dont get me started on that with working out haha) it will help you a little.

So what is it you are saying? You start off with no, then end up at yes. When i say you are being naive, that is not a bad thing, it is just pointing out you need more information about the way it is being used and the person using it.

So really the real answer is in the person using it, how and why.
:)
 
Just practicing doesn't work.
I have damaged my pinky from years of sports and other things, just playing doesn't help or work. My pinky curves into the ring finger, this makes it very uncomfortable to stretch the other way...that would be normal fretting for other folks.
Trying to fret on a 6 string is a chore for me. On bass I can get away with using the other three fingers.

Sometimes you have to find something to help, it's not always cut and dry like you guys point out.
 
Just practicing doesn't work.
I have damaged my pinky from years of sports and other things, just playing doesn't help or work. My pinky curves into the ring finger, this makes it very uncomfortable to stretch the other way...that would be normal fretting for other folks.
Trying to fret on a 6 string is a chore for me. On bass I can get away with using the other three fingers.

Sometimes you have to find something to help, it's not always cut and dry like you guys point out.

Seek out a physical therapist, orthopedist (a mainstream type of chiropractor who may help) or similar specialist. Not TB on this one.
 
Already have done that, you aren't getting the context of the post. Sometimes practicing doesn't make it better, not all of us have the perfect hand for fretting.
I used to be able to palm a basketball no problem, I have the reach...the finger just doesn't go that direction anymore. So I have to compensate. Some folks just need alternative forms of exercise to help with that. I did when I rehabbed my right hand, I still use the physio putty to help strengthen my hand.
 
Already have done that, you aren't getting the context of the post. Sometimes practicing doesn't make it better, not all of us have the perfect hand for fretting.
I used to be able to palm a basketball no problem, I have the reach...the finger just doesn't go that direction anymore. So I have to compensate. Some folks just need alternative forms of exercise to help with that. I did when I rehabbed my right hand, I still use the physio putty to help strengthen my hand.

Hi you have a form of radial devation in you little finger( as you know). I assume when you talk about re-hab you are talking exclusively about the hand. If you want some info or to talk over your problem drop me a PM with a brief history of your hands and we will take it from there. I can't promise anything other than i come at it from a players point of view.:)

Check out the blogs at
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to get a feel of where i am coming from.
 
My extra-light tension 'yellow' Gripmaster requires some pushing to move them-3 lbs. per finger! Anyone want it for a bit of postage? Let me know.

John

the hand is a lot stronger than you'd think :P

i use these, but not for bass purposes.. for forearm/wrist training:

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currently on the 250, thats.. 50 lbs per finger! yeah! :D


anyway - to the long post i wont quote above

the point is, it could be anything. yes technically its warming him up, but at the same time its also partly placebo (since it really wont do a lot to "reduce pain" etc.)
My point was just play the bass, a gripmaster (for warming up before playing bass) reasons is pretty much pointless.