The Indefensible Position (Geddy Lee Steinberger Content)

[Bob_Ross]

Slightly zombified thread drift:

While Steinberger went for a solid, molded mix of resin and powdered graphite, Green build lightweight cores out of plastic foam (originally out of balsa wood, as I understand it), and covers them with layers of resin-soaked woven graphite cloth, a lot like the way surfboards are built.

This is the first I've heard that L-2s or XL-2s used powdered graphite. I was always under the impression that Steinberger used graphite thread running the length of the instrument. From my understanding of carbon fiber construction this would seem to be the only way for the graphite to impart any controllable/predictable strength to the composite structure; powdered graphite would be homogenous to a fault (i.e., not contributing strength in any particular dimension).

 

[brianrost]

That 'berger provides a nice, midrange focused tone, which allows ged's playing to sit in its own spot in Rush's extremely occupied sound spectrum. I can hear every note he plays.

That's why guys like me have held on to their Steinbergers. The clarity of the notes, even with the treble rolled way off is phenomenal. The response is incredibly even across the neck, there's no places where it suddenly gets muddy or ice pick thin.

 

[E.J. T.N.T.]

My favourite tone of his is by far the one from Rush in Rio. It is just brutal, super crispy with a very interesting high end. I think the only non-live recording that came close to capturing that tone was the Feedback cover album.

I also love the tone on the 1st and 2nd disc of different stages live albums.

Ironically I think it is both his jazz in both cases even though it is quite different tones.

I also like the tone on the Roll the bones record a lot. It was a very good contemporary tone, but it still holds pretty well. Was that one of the Wals?

I think a very important aspect that is often overlooked regarding the changes in the band's sound is also the changes in the guitar tones and even more importantly the drum tones. In the case of Rush there have been huge changes there as well and I can imagine Mr. Lee adapted accordingly to a big degree.

 

[DigitalMan]

My favourite tone of his is by far the one from Rush in Rio. It is just brutal, super crispy with a very interesting high end. I think the only non-live recording that came close to capturing that tone was the Feedback cover album.

I also love the tone on the 1st and 2nd disc of different stages live albums.

Ironically I think it is both his jazz in both cases even though it is quite different tones.

I also like the tone on the Roll the bones record a lot. It was a very good contemporary tone, but it still holds pretty well. Was that one of the Wals?

I think a very important aspect that is often overlooked regarding the changes in the band's sound is also the changes in the guitar tones and even more importantly the drum tones. In the case of Rush there have been huge changes there as well and I can imagine Mr. Lee adapted accordingly to a big degree.

Rush in Rio and Feedback (I believe) along with Vapor Trails was predominately a Sansamp RBI tone. He switched to the RPM shortly thereafter.

You are also correct that Roll the Bones was all Wal.

 

[dje31]

99% sure RtB was Wal.

As you alluded, both Geddy and Alex went through different phases with gear, pretty coincident with each other. A lot of the 80s stuff from Grace Under Pressure to Presto---maybe? not sure without looking it up---Alex was using variations on / modern takes on Strats, often with active electronics. Then he went to PRS until Counterparts. Also, that was at the height of keys being a super prominent role in their sound, so they were trying to be heard, as well as modernized for the flavors and tastes of the decade.

For Counterparts and forward, they stripped down, minimized the keys, Alex was Gibson almost exclusively, and Geddy was pretty much full-on back to the Jazz.

I think that's close, but probably not 100%.

 

[Lunachik526]

I was about 5 or 6 when the video of that tour was being sold. My older brother is a drummer and was a major Neil Peart fan. So, my first experience with Rush was during Geddy's steinberger phase and was odd for me to see him with anything else (now of course I know better). Moving Pictures was the 3rd album I ever bought - Queen's a Night at the Opera and News of the World were the first two.

 

[Benag]

When I saw Rush on the Power Windows tour, I could hear every nuance, of every note that Getty played on the Steinberger.... I've only seen them four times and he was playing the Fender the other three time I saw them. You could argue all day long about which bass is better but all the times I saw him playing the Fender...... it was mush and a great deal of what he played was unintelligible. Whether or not he recorded any given tracks with the Steinberger, is somewhat irrelevant. As far as the live show, it seems like Steinberger had a more solid and defined tone. Make no mistake, I'm a fan of all the different tones and basses he's used to record. But, when it comes to live, I want to hear everything he plays, clearly! In my experience, that only happened when he was playing the Steinberger.

 

[consectaneus]

Never thought I'd hear his J tone described as indistinct.

 

[John Swartz]

Geddy could play a Gibson Grabber through an Acoustic 360 and to most non-bassplaying Rush fans, he's still going to sound like Geddy...

 

[Tim See]

NOTE - minor book spoilers ahead, you are warned.

Heh, interesting thread. I came across it searching for "Geddy Lee Steinberger" after reading his < 1 page (as expected) mention of it in his book. I get that it's not (a) The Special Vintage Thing and (b) not the focus of his current preferences, but I (c) think he's not being objective or at least (d) missing out on some of the cool details about the Steinberger's design and history (for instance, the pickups - I bet he doesn't even know they're special, more like P ones really).

So that said, yeah, I think the "Steinberger Sound" worked very well for him and in the context of Rush, at least when they cared about actual instrument definition instead of ... well, what their sound became (Neil seemed to lose his hearing first, with the drum sound quality going to hell). I don't get how Geddy is so into all these amazing vintage tones, yet he runs through all the crappy distortion and everything. He describes using all these cool basses on the R40 tour, yet he also describes how they used processing to normalize the sound as he switched out. Ah er. So I'm not sure he can hear too good anymore either. (Alex seems immune, having gone back to a more natural/real-guitar sound - perhaps he just plays so loud through real amps, he can still hear it ok).

(For reference - article on the pickups. EMG Pickups)

 

[ModuMan]

Funny, @Tim See I was also wondering about the change in their live sound. I was going through a bunch of live recordings of a particular song and it really struck my how much *worse* the tones were getting over the years.

I also agree about the Steinberger getting merely a nod in the book. At this point I'd say they are just as "vintage" as anything else in there and just as worthy of inclusion as a developmental milestone in the history of the instrument.

 

[ERIC31]

I was just rewatching the Grace Under Pressure show and decided to look this old thread up! l love the Steinberger tone and look. It is very distinct in look and sound and I wish I had one. Way, way out of my price range to say the vert least. I'll be getting a Spirit one at some point. LOL I know that it's not the same but since I've never had my hands on a real one, it'll do just fine. My trinity for Rush records is Moving Pictures-Signals-Grace Under Pressure. Those are the three that get the most play. I'm a huge 80's music fan so I love synths as much as basses and have no problems with their place in the bands mid 80's output.

Anyway thats my .02 cents worth.

 

[A9X]

It is very distinct in look and sound and I wish I had one.

They are the best. I've owned >150 basses, but only one has been with me for the duration; my XL2 (purchased new 86).

I'll be getting a Spirit one at some point. LOL I know that it's not the same but since I've never had my hands on a real one, it'll do just fine.

I have several Woodbergers, mainly Hohners plus a Spirit. If you add EMG HBs to it you'll get close to the CF Steinberger tone. Also add a strap pin extender to make playing more comfortable. Plenty of info in the Spirit thread, but here's an NS Stick as an example.

 

[John Swartz]

Funny, @Tim See I was also wondering about the change in their live sound. I was going through a bunch of live recordings of a particular song and it really struck my how much *worse* the tones were getting over the years.

I also agree about the Steinberger getting merely a nod in the book. At this point I'd say they are just as "vintage" as anything else in there and just as worthy of inclusion as a developmental milestone in the history of the instrument.

It probably only gets a "nod" because Geddy 1) only has a few in his collections (esp. when compared to Fenders and Gibsons), and 2) he only played it for a few years. Also, and this is just my theory, but it may be one of the few (only?) basses that Geddy played NOT because of it's tone, but because of it's physical characteristics (which allowed him to move onstage better without bumping keyboards and mics). I'm not disparaging the tone of the Steinbergers - just saying that Geddy didn't pick one up and say, "THIS is the sound I'm looking for".

John

 

[A9X]

^^ And you know the above is true, how?

 

[crucislancer]

To me, the Steinberger tone he got was his best live tone ever.

Yes, the tone he got from the Steinberger was fantastic. I would definitely say it was better than the Wal bass tone he had. It's all subjective, of course. For me, the absolute best live tone was from Different Stages, but the Steinberger tone is way up there, too.

 

[bnt]

Personally, I found his Wal tone my least favorite by far.

Which tone? First there was the Power Windows tone from Peter Collins' Wal with the light strings. Then Geddy got the black Wal and used that for a couple of albums, but by Roll The Bones he wanted a stronger tone and got the Red "Horny" Wal for that album.

I'm still a fan of the Steinberger tone, though, and I think Geddy really liked using them live, being so light and compact.

 

[ERIC31]

 

[ERIC31]

This is the Spirit I’d like to get. (They are on back order currently) That blue looks awesome!

 

[A9X]

^^ Is that from Thomann?