The Indefensible Position (Geddy Lee Steinberger Content)

[Altitude]

I have the Rush Replay box set, and this morning I decided to watch some of the Grace Under Pressure tour while I cleaned up breakfast. This is the one where Alex Lifeson appears to be wearing pajamas with a sport jacket. It's worth watching for the Joe Flaherty cameo alone.

But I digress.

This was the show where Geddy was playing the Steinberger.

For years I associated Geddy with a 4001. I dig what he's done with his Fenders on recordings recently, although I think he goes too far with the overdrive on all of the recent live concerts I've seen.

To me, the Steinberger tone he got was his best live tone ever.

Fie, I know.

Here's the thing, though. That 'berger provides a nice, midrange focused tone, which allows ged's playing to sit in its own spot in Rush's extremely occupied sound spectrum. I can hear every note he plays.

In contrast, on the recent recordings, his Fenders seem to mash in to the midst of this ever-present grunge on the low end of their "sound wall".

His current tone sounds great on studio recordings - "Caravan" is awesome in particular. But, even though I am sure he would not agree, that Steinberger really did the trick live.

 

[Lonesomedave]

just out of curiosity... why is that position indefensible?

/s/ Dave

 

[Altitude]

just out of curiosity... why is that position indefensible?

/s/ Dave

LOL. I'll assert that Geddy's Steinberger phase was the least favored among most of his fans. Either the bass itself wasn't quite manly enough or it represents a phase of Rush's career that disappointed many. Or both.

I don't feel that way personally.

 

[grendle]

I discovered rush during the Burger years, so I never originally associated him with a Ric, which was a big part of why I bought a Burger. They are awesome and can get just about any tone you want. Great bump in the mids also. Even the wood copies sound and play great. They just look a little too high-tech for their own good. Personally I 'm a fan of everything from hemispheres to roll the bones. I kinda miss the keyboards.

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I'm a huge fan of the all-composite Steinbergers (actually, I'm the proud owner of one) but I'm one of those who doesn't like Geddy's Steinberger tone that much (I also have the Replay set, BTW). Both his Steinie and his live tone after ditching bass amps from stage (haven't heard him playing through his new Orange amps), are my least favorite Geddy tones. On the other hand, I'm one of those who like his Wal tone a lot (although not as much as his classic Rickenbacker tone or his Fender Jazz as recorded on "Moving Pictures").

 

[bassman10096]

I'm a graphite junkie, but never warmed up to Geddy's Steinie tone. On the other hand, Dee Murray (backing Elton John) used a Steinie to get the best balanced, full range, fully audible, beautiful bass tone I've ever heard live - in Madison Square Garden (the place where good sound goes to die).

 

[kcole4001]

Personally, I found his Wal tone my least favorite by far.

The Steinberger does have an instantly recognizable voice, and a particular snap and punch to it, and you're right, it did sit in a complex mix very well.
I just don't like the tone enough myself.

I still prefer his Rick tone. The J's are OK, but a little indistinct in the mix.

 

[BartmanPDX]

I like his Steinberger tone. It was perfect for their music at that time. I wasn't such a big fan of him playing keyboards so much which is one of the reasons he favored the 'Berger back then.

I have an XL-2 and it might have the best tone of all my basses. It just kills live and in the studio. The tone is versatile but clear as a bell and sits great in a mix, though it is revealing of bad technique and if you miss a note, it's obvious. But I hate the narrow string spacing at the bridge and the relatively thick front-to-back neck isn't very comfortable for me either. It was my main bass for many years but rarely goes out now. It's also MUCH heavier than my Sadowsky.

 

[number11]

I have the Rush Replay box set, and this morning I decided to watch some of the Grace Under Pressure tour while I cleaned up breakfast. This is the one where Alex Lifeson appears to be wearing pajamas with a sport jacket. It's worth watching for the Joe Flaherty cameo alone.

But I digress.

This was the show where Geddy was playing the Steinberger.

For years I associated Geddy with a 4001. I dig what he's done with his Fenders on recordings recently, although I think he goes too far with the overdrive on all of the recent live concerts I've seen.

To me, the Steinberger tone he got was his best live tone ever.

Fie, I know.

Here's the thing, though. That 'berger provides a nice, midrange focused tone, which allows ged's playing to sit in its own spot in Rush's extremely occupied sound spectrum. I can hear every note he plays.

In contrast, on the recent recordings, his Fenders seem to mash in to the midst of this ever-present grunge on the low end of their "sound wall".

His current tone sounds great on studio recordings - "Caravan" is awesome in particular. But, even though I am sure he would not agree, that Steinberger really did the trick live.

Bless you, Sir!!

In the studio, the recorded tone on Grace nder Pressure is just brilliant - gritty, yet clean and focussed. Wonderful.

On the G/P tour video, his playing on YYZ's solos is a bit off, and it makes the Berger seem like its sound is the problem, but its not.

I bought a Hohner Steinie copy after seeing that video in my teens and have played the real ones exclusively since 2001.

I've seen Rush twice in the last couple of years and hated the bass sound both times. I'm not a fan of the jazz / sansamp combo he's been using. On the way to my gig tonight i was listening to Roll the Bones and the bass sound was wojus.

 

[I<34080]

The Steinberger had the most tame sound of all his basses, live that is. It might also have to do with him switching from Ashly preamps to Furman PQ-3 preamps. He lost the overdrive, and didn't didn't have the real clean bite he got with his Wal+Funkmaster strings.

 

[JonahTheAmazing]

Geddy's tones over the years have been quite diverse, when you put it into perspective. My personal favorite goes to the early Rick years. I don't mind the Steinberger at all, it might be a tad better than the present day over-driven Jazz sound.

 

[ERIC31]

Steinberger tone all the way. Sounds great in the mix and looks cool too!

 

[Morgan Koren]

I seem to remember Geddy saying he was using Rotosound Funkmaster strings on that bass. I've never played them, but I understand they sound different than standard Rotos due to much less tension.

Edit: might have been the Wal instead ???

 

[chuck norriss]

Bless you, Sir!!

In the studio, the recorded tone on Grace nder Pressure is just brilliant - gritty, yet clean and focussed. Wonderful.

I'm listening to GUP now

I don't know exactly how old this is (no date) but some of you might find this interesting:
GC: What factors come into play when choosing which bass to play?
Lee: Mostly I'm always wanting to use my number one, my old Fender. There are some songs on which we use some dropped D tunings and things like that, so I'll switch to another Fender. I've got some great basses that Fender Custom Shop made for me that are also really good sounding Jazz models. A lot of the older songs that people think I was using the Rick, I was using my Fender. Like "Tom Sawyer" for example is the one song people always ask me, "How come you don't use the Rick for 'Tom Sawyer'?" I never used the Rick on it actually.
GC: Was that about the time you switched back to the Jazz?
Lee: I was using both on that album. Like a song like "Red Barchetta" is pure Rick and "Tom Sawyer" was Fender. That's when I started realizing that the Fender was capable of giving me similar sound but a better bottom end. That was the main reason for changing from a Rick. I would run a separate setup for the top end and the bottom end. It really required a lot of playing around with the right kind of compressors, the right kind of a cue, to get the sound punchy enough in the bottom end. When I tried to do that with the Fender I found it's just a lot easier to reproduce a Ricky-like top end and keep the great punchy Fender bottom end.
GC: More recently though you've used some different basses?
Lee: Yeah, but I got a little tired of it and went back to the Fender.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[chuck norriss]

although he's talkig about moving pictures not Grace

 

[GM60466]

I heard an interview where he call the bass a broom that he never liked.

 

[BawanaRik]

I'm a graphite junkie, but never warmed up to Geddy's Steinie tone. On the other hand, Dee Murray (backing Elton John) used a Steinie to get the best balanced, full range, fully audible, beautiful bass tone I've ever heard live - in Madison Square Garden (the place where good sound goes to die).

I live in New Jersey and con relate to this comment.

I doubt Rush will ever play Carnegie Hall. Where good sound lives!

 

[DigitalMan]

Unfortunately live sound reproduction is too good today - and the bottom end of a Rush show is bigger than it used to be. I hope next tour they find a way to give a little space between the kick and the bass.

Back on topic, I like most of Geddy's tones through the years, even the three different tones since they returned from hiatus are all pretty good - and very distinct from one another. The Steinberger tone suited songs like Distant Early Warning and Red Lenses very well. But I can also understand where Geddy's coming from. Nobody likes to spend too much time looking in their own rear view mirror. Nostalgia is the realm of the fan, not the artist.

I owned an XL2 in the past, and probably will again someday. But to me it's more about memory lane than about the ultimate tone. I wish Gibson (they bought Steinberger IIRC) would work with Ned (can't we all get along?) and bring back the XL2. There is no doubt that the market exists to make a limited reissue a worthwhile venture.

 

[Parzival]

Don't quote me on this, but I am pretty sure p/g was recorded with the Rick and Jazz and Power Windows was the Wal. The burger was only used on that p/g tour. Geddy made a comment somewhere that he used the Berger for one tour but 90% of the pictures of him from the 80's show him with that bass.

 

[Sid Fang]

Digitalman, as I understand it (and I've been an XL2A player for 20-odd years, and have been paying attention), Gibson scrapped the original molds when they concluded that it would never be practical to mass produce the XL's, so it's unlikely there will ever be a re-issue. Status Graphite in the UK make a monocoque graphite composite design that's the spiritual descendant of the L/XL family, called the Streamline, which is probably as close as anyone is going to get to a new XL2. Rob Green of Status uses a very different construction technique from Ned Steinberger, though. While Steinberger went for a solid, molded mix of resin and powdered graphite, Green build lightweight cores out of plastic foam (originally out of balsa wood, as I understand it), and covers them with layers of resin-soaked woven graphite cloth, a lot like the way surfboards are built. The result is significantly lighter than the old Steinbergers, but just as thermally stable and tonally neutral.

I found a photo out there of a 'berger and a Streamline, side by side. This Streamline looks to be built with the option of the 32" scale and a "bend well" behind the zero fret. It also comes in a 34" scale, same as the Steinberger.