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the Late Great James Jamerson..

#223
Hey Basshole,

It would be nice if Stevie W. blew a hole in this story the size of Texas but I would think that he must have heard something about it before now and chosen not to say anything. Not because he agrees with the controversy. Because who cares what She says (from his perspective).

There is already Henry Cosby's declaration that Stevie's record was done in Detroit with the Funks so the historical record is already quite clear in my view. If this somehow got into Stevie's pocket ($$$) that might be another story. Since that isn't the case I suspect he doesn't give a rat's behind about her and her "claims".

Same thing with HDH. Why should they go out of their way to even acknowledge Kaye. They made their positive statement about the events surrounding the recording of Bernadette (Another one of Kaye's claims) in a interview on the BBC. I have that interview in case it ever comes up in any litigation created by Kaye in the future.

The Wikipedia thing is just a situation where the general public gets to edit what is written there. It seems like a struggle of two sides. One trying to tell the story of the controversy and the other trying to clean up Kayes image. I urge anyone who might have some interest in the situation go to wikipedia and view the article and the discussion that resulted from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Kaye

I did not post on Wikipedia nor did I suggest that someone else should. As it stands now there is 1- no mention of the controversy but there is 2- no mention of Stevie Wonder or the Four Tops (IWMTLH & Bernadette respectively) records either.

Sometimes history adjusts itself. For sure if there is no mention of her claims to have done the recordings in the first place there would be no reason to dispute said claims...
 
#225
All comments-(I read anyway) are SO true. Great bassist & didn't get the recognition. Just thru hearing him(albeit unknowingly) on the radio & on some of my fave songs all my life, I find I've played that same lazy style all my life too. I ain't sayin I'm as good or anything- just that I s'pose without realizing it I copied him / he influenced me!! As he did SO many!! & I didn't even know it was him until about 1986!!!! ;-( THAT clip w/ Marvin......... Whooo hooo- thanx!
 
#227
rodl2005 said:
All comments-(I read anyway) are SO true. Great bassist & didn't get the recognition. Just thru hearing him(albeit unknowingly) on the radio & on some of my fave songs all my life, I find I've played that same lazy style all my life too. I ain't sayin I'm as good or anything- just that I s'pose without realizing it I copied him / he influenced me!! As he did SO many!! & I didn't even know it was him until about 1986!!!! ;-( THAT clip w/ Marvin......... Whooo hooo- thanx!
Click to expand...

This is my experience as well....and I grew up in Detroit!
Without knowing why, I'd been playing his approach to pop, funk, R&B all these years. A bandmate once told me "your lines are like a spider". I never forgot that comment. Makes sense now.
 
#229
I've been helping try to add to the JJ discography here:

Invalid Link Removed

There are almost 200 pre-1983 albums on the list now, and I'm still finding stuff. It's to their shame that Motown don't attempt to compile that list - I know it would be an expensive undertaking but surely someone could get some funding for such an important task?
 
#230
Bass45 said:
I have to take issue with you on this one. There are many bassists, Jaco and Billy Sheehan quickly come to mind, That can play just as fast with fingers as any picker. I know I can. Carol Kay has a mental problem I believe.
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I have been slow to respond because I was busy with other projects. I made an initially incomplete statement which you responded to. What was not said that was, in my opinion, speed was one thing but "feel" is another and the speed statement was made and the comparison to the feel aspect was left out. I am absolutely NOT claiming that pick players have NO feel but their feel is distinctly different. I also look at bass technique as related to the parent instrument and in this case I am talking about the upright bass.

Although the electric bass can be associated to the electric guitar and has been linked by players that play both, I see the greater link to the upright bass and it has always been that way in my approach to the instrument.

There is absolutely some gray areas. The upright can be played with the bow and with the fingers (being something in common with both instruments). However, the electric can not be used with the bow.

The bass can be played with a pick like the guitar but the guitar finger style rarely plays in the same manner that a bass finger style is usually played.

I am tending to lean toward the notion of "Can't we all just get along?" in my old age, LOL. I play exclusively with my fingers (even though I started with a felt pick as a kid). There are a lot of players that are in between my position regarding the use of picks and the other extreme of playing with a pick exclusively. Their range runs the gamut from excellent innovative players to those who must be completely insane for ever touching the instrument in the first place, top to bottom (BTW there is no relationship to your last remark).

Though I definitely have my differences with Kaye, she is a remarkable individual in her actual accomplishments (on guitar and bass) but I kind of see her as the Hillary Clinton of her issues with regards to her gender and losing the argument on other completely technical aspect of the real issues. With regards to Jamerson, her day is over but she is still trying to compete (sorry, please lets leave all other political stuff out of this. the gender analogy was too parallel to be ignored by me but not political at all, there is no place for that here).

BL
 
#231
I don't want this thread to turn into a pick vs no pick thread for obvious reasons, but I will add that the bass was intended to be played without a pick and that most of the picking began as a transfer over from a lot of guitarists who took up the bass... this defines the difference between a Jamerson and a Kay, and why the one will always be a better "Bassist" than the other.. Some techniques that are new to the bass (in terms of it's over all historical existence) lend themselves to picks, but for me, the bass 90% upright and 10% guitar.
 
#232
SamJ said:
I don't want this thread to turn into a pick vs no pick thread for obvious reasons, but I will add that the bass was intended to be played without a pick and that most of the picking began as a transfer over from a lot of guitarists who took up the bass... this defines the difference between a Jamerson and a Kay, and why the one will always be a better "Bassist" than the other.. Some techniques that are new to the bass (in terms of it's over all historical existence) lend themselves to picks, but for me, the bass 90% upright and 10% guitar.
Click to expand...


Hey Sam,

You know, I am not so sure that Leo Fender didn't design the P & J basses to be used with a pick (he just might have). That is the only logical reason to have the covers over the pick up on the originals, to keep the pick from hitting the pickup. In his design he definitely intended the bass to be played with the thumb rather than index and middle fingers. He even had the "finger" rest below the strings rather than above (where the contemporary "thumb" rest is). It is players who decided to use one or two fingers over picks and thumbs. For the most part, Jamerson was one of the few players who used the "ash trays" to his advantage (technique wise) by anchoring his fingers to it. It is quite possible that the inventor of the electric bass intended for it to be played with a pick. Never thought of it quite that way before!

One other thing that I have seen written was that Fender invented the P-bass so that guitarist could double on bass. He also called it an electric bass guitar rather than an electric bass. Yes it's not about pick vs no pick.
 
#233
thanks Lee, I always figured the pick guards on the Fender basses were more for esthetics, family resemblance and continuity than anything else.. After all, looking at the '51 P-bass, it doesn't even guard where the pick would be were one to play between the bridge and pickup. It seems like it serves more as an electronics cover and design item to me.

Whereas the Telecaster from the same period design has a much larger relative area where the pick would indeed fall after a strum for me.



50th-P-Bass-large.jpg



444180.jpg
 
#234
Thanks for the picture. The pickguard makes it seem like they intended to pick near the neck rather than the bridge. That would give a deeper sound when the standard of the day was to emulate an upright bass. There was no need for any high end for bass in those days.

We, as players, shaped the way this instrument was to be played more than just to wait around for it's inventor to tell us how to play it. He responded over time to accept what we the players wanted out of a bass and things (like the finger rest being replaced by the thumb rest, having a P-J PU giving you the best (sort of) of both worlds, roundwound strings and other things) started finding their way into the new standard. Jamerson was mixed in his recordings with Motown brilliantly and it shows in how the mixed recording sound next to the isolated tracks.

I remember when they would literally not let you in the recording studios (on the east coast) if you did not own a Fender P-Bass. I am sure it was similar in California at the time. Because of that, there is a direct correlation on how the P-Bass influenced the way bass was recorded.
 
#236
wow!!! i first posted on this thread 2yrs ago....anyway i always have a good thing to say about my favorite musician...JAMES JAMERSON....man i read that carol kaye asessment years ago before there was the internet.. and it saddens me that people still discuss it, after it has already been confirmed she didnt' play on the original recordings..she can enjoy her legacy without grave-robbing..its obvious from the recordings who's playing..NOBODY ELSE SOUNDS LIKE THAT!!!!
 
#240
It is almost exactly 40 years since Jamerson cut "For Once In My Life" with Stevie Wonder - if you make me pick a favourite bass track of all time, it would have to be that one. I have put my tribute to JJ's masterpiece here - I would NEVER claim to nail a Jamerson line, but I hope my little effort helps spread the word about his genius:

 

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