Warning: Long post alert. Apologies in advance
I'm curious to know if you have a guess as to the percentage of "Ear" vs. "Chord/Scale" players that you've encountered? Is it 50/50 or 30/70, etc., and do you see a generational divide, or trend? That is - are there fewer "Ear" players coming up these days?
(The late L.A. Pianist, Frank Strazzeri told me that when he worked with Chet Baker, Chet would ask Frank to "play the first note.."of the melody of the tune - that's all that CB needed.)
Older players: probably more ear and less chord/scale. Younger players: It depends on their academic path. It's easier for colleges and teachers to codify chord/scale theory and teach that (Play this scale to fit this chord) than to try and teach someone to hear first, analyze later. From my experience, teachers like John Clayton and Lynn Seaton put a lot of emphasis on hearing / singing, and then playing those sounds on the bass — rather than trying to analyze first and then play according to a preset academic correctness.
When I was 19, I had the chance to play with some legendary players when I was the house bassist at a jazz club. I remember Buddy Tate teaching me "Stompin' at the Savoy" by just playing the arpeggios. I asked him what key it was in (Db), and he just said "It goes like this," and he started playing the arpeggios. I don't think he had anything to do with chord/scale theory — which was a concept that wasn't around when he was learning to play (and when the Basie band was in their heyday).
I worked with Jimmy Raney quite a bit back then, and he was aware of chord/scale theory — but he never thought that way. His approach was having his four-note voicing, and then there would be the other notes (obviously) in between the chord tones that sound good. That's what @Chris Fitzgerald is talking about having his students try and sing. Being from Louisville, Jimmy was well aware of Jamey Aebersold's chord/scale method of playing, but that was not what he talked about when he spoke about music.
Same thing with other older players I worked with like Jay McShann, Barney Kessel, etc. They knew harmony up and down, but didn't think about chord/scale theory.
Also - Is it worthwhile to mention that (for many of us, IMO) "Chord/Scale...." is an ongoing, lifelong learning & hearing PROCESS, (as you've alluded to...), NOT a METHOD for improvisation? (as some people inaccurately assume.)
Yes — thank you. I think this is what I meant in my previous post. I don't really care if someone does or doesn't ascribe to knowing chord/scale theory—that's their choice. The important thing to me is how they sound. But, in the case of a lot of modern improvised music, it's really important to have a handle on chord/scale theory. As you point out, the above changes would be a minefield for a player who didn't think much about chord/scale theory. Stan Getz could have heard his way through all of that—but to just sightread a piece like that (like we do at my day gig), it helps to be able to sus out the changing harmonies using chords and scales. Yes—it's a lifelong process, not a quick fix method.
Also, Too - Some unusual Chord Name nomenclature in the above example -
Bar 95 - Bb/B to B(triangle) - is this indicating a Bdim to Bmaj7? (Does the composer use "triangle" by itself to include the "maj7"? It looks like he does. I've never seen that before.)
Bar 97, for example - looks like he wants the voicing to be "E/Bb", but I always like to pencil in a more complete chord name that the voicing is suggesting: Bb7b9#11. (I anticipate that the Pianist/Guitarist/Banjoist might subsequently be embellishing that voicing. It helps me to hear and understand the larger function of that suggested voicing, to have a better idea of where we've been/and where we might be going, and to have a wider selection of note choices that I'm confident can still add support.)
But that's me.
Thank You, and Kumbaya, Y'all.
The triangle for major 7 is used by Aebersold. The assumption is: It's less for the brain to process if you read C∆ rather than C∆7 or Cmaj7. If we see C∆, then we know that the major 7th is in there. If it's a triad, then it's just C.
I'll ask Juan today at the rehearsal if his Bb/B is different from a Bdim7. To me, it's not, just another way of writing the same thing. I'm guessing to him as the composer, he has a specific voicing in mind. Same thing with the E/Bb. He might want only the triad over a bass note . . . or maybe it's just a version of a Bb alt for him (I know you don't ascribe to "alt" Don
I'm guessing he only wants the E triad over Bb. It's modal harmony, not functional harmony. I'm sure Juan knows exactly what he wrote, and there is a reason for it.
A side note: I see a lot of composers who use the default chord symbols in Finale or Sibelius. If someone is using Jazzfont Chords, or Broadway Copyist Font, or whatever, their chord symbols are right out of the box. Sometimes that's a good thing, but sometimes it's problematic because it doesn't precisely describe the sound they want.
@Chris Fitzgerald I know what you saying about "the ear should take over," but in my experience with students, a lot of them do not have any kind of developed ear — they haven't sung a lot in their lives. (Some have sung a lot before they take up the bass, and they definitely have better hearing skills than the non-singers). Most can't really sing a major scale with any kind of variation (Sing a scale in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths. Sing the triad arpeggios of a scale, etc). Once they practice major scales in various ways on the bass for a few months, they can start to hear that scale, those intervals, those chords better. I think their hearing develops concurrently with their bass technique. (I also have students sing / play / sing / play — in lessons).
When I teach, I might have the student learn all the modes of the harmonic minor scale, even if they don't know why they are learning this scale. (After they've learned all the modes of the major scale, the melodic minor scale, pentatonic and blues scales, diminished scales, whole-tone scales, the chromatic scale, etc.). Then when they eventually come across an EbMaj7#9, they should know—hopefully hear— that it comes from the G harmonic minor scale. Or a Cmin7(#11) . . . again the G harmonic minor scale (or a C Dorian#4).
I think if I wait until they can hear those sounds . . . or discover them on their own . . . I'll be waiting a long time. However, if they practice the sounds first *just because they have to*, then they learn to hear the sounds as they master them on the bass. When I teach, I emphasize learning scales and arpeggios. This is sometimes frustrating for the students . . . but it's sort of a "Karate Kid" kind of thing.
@damonsmith Yes, the "bluesy" part of that EbMaj7#9 comes from the minor 3rd interval between root and #9: Eb, F#, G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb.
@gebass6 Yeah . . . Allan Holdsworth . . . guitar player, right?
More like "organic melody" every time I heard him.
