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The Official MTD USA Thread

#2,381
Vic said:
Just as a data point, I hear what Ken is saying with the MTD sonic footprint, but I think that's REALLY dependent on wood combos... especially with MTDs, and I don't think it can simply be said across the board as I read his post to say. Ironically, he had a wenge neck'd bass, and at the risk of drawing flack from wenge neck'd owners, Ken's comments parallel my experiences with wenge neck'd MTDs, which is a big reason why I probably won't own one.

However, two of my MTDs, and again, one with an ash neck, cut like a KNIFE. I have NO issues with that upper mid cut/bite. Maybe not as emphasized as a Smith, but definitely cutting... and I'm using the S2 UL410 these days, and with various heads... some even with some "enhance" turned on. No probs.

IMHO/IME of course.
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I found the same thing with my ash neck MTD. And, it's not the upper mids that are the problem.... both my wenge neck and ash neck MTD growled like crazy in that 800hz to 2K upper mid region. It's all about mid mid and lower mid articulation, versus the inherent voicing of many of the MTD's... HUGE low end, lot's of upper mid grind... what you are calling 'bite' (I don't hear an upper mid voicing in the Smith's at all... they are all about low mid punch to me... due to that 'tight to the bridge' pickup placement).

Again, I would agree that ALL MTD's bite like crazy... that upper mid sort of thing. I just (as it seems Hasbeen does also) prefer more meat in the lower mids to my tone, and less 'extension' in the low end.
 
#2,382
KJung said:
I used my MTD as my primary bass for many, many years. I never had a significant problem making it sound good on stage with the right rig, and actually I dug Jason's MTD through my 502/410UL rig... that's a good combination with those basses (the Epi heads have a surprising amount of mid punch to them now that I've had a chance to get some gigs on it under my belt, and the very smooth, somewhat polite treble response of that head softens the very aggressive sizzle of the MTD preamp and those active pickups).

However, my tone has progressed to being 'all about the mids' over the years, and that definitely is not those basses' strong point. So, this gets down to personal taste.
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I agree, personal taste and also we're talking "degrees" here.

I attended Bass Player Live last October in Manhattan. I was working on the stage at the all star jam during sound check. ....about 20 bassits. Andrew Gouche was sounded great with his wenge neck going through an Epi rig. I was setting up Chuck Rainey's rig which was right next to Andrew. Andrew was flanked on the other side by Jonas Helbourg. Yes I'm name dropping. So what...it was a fun night. ;)

But seriously, on stage and out front Andrew got through the mix fine.
 
#2,383
KJung said:
I found the same thing with my ash neck MTD. And, it's not the upper mids that are the problem.... both my wenge neck and ash neck MTD growled like crazy in that 800hz to 2K upper mid region. It's all about mid mid and lower mid articulation, versus the inherent voicing of many of the MTD's... HUGE low end, lot's of upper mid grind... what you are calling 'bite' (I don't hear an upper mid voicing in the Smith's at all... they are all about low mid punch to me... due to that 'tight to the bridge' pickup placement).

Again, I would agree that ALL MTD's bite like crazy... that upper mid sort of thing. I just (as it seems Hasbeen does also) prefer more meat in the lower mids to my tone, and less 'extension' in the low end.
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I hear things exactly the same way as Ken. With my wenge necked 535, I had to CUT the UPPER mids and boost the lower mids (on my LMII head) to get the tone I was after. To my ears, the wenge has a huge upper midrange bump. Its funny how we can all hear things differently. I also agree the the Smiths are ALL about the low mids.
 
#2,384
To me, low mids add punch and girth (i.e. chest pounding presence), but not the kind of cut/bite, or "edge", that gives you a pretty clear identity in the mix. Low mids (around 300-400Hz max) fill space, but don't particularly identify you in the mix.

Don't get me wrong, low mids are critically important to me. It's just that, when I'm missing that cut/bite, my bass sounds "dull" to me, and that drives me crazy.

IMHO anyway.
 
#2,385
Yeah, I'd say Smith basses are more about "mids" than "low-mids". They have so much mids that you can cut through any mix, and you often need to cut the mids especially when slapping them.

Due to the different pickup placement, an MTD will never have as much mid punch, but in my experience they have no problem cutting through the mix either... they just do it in a different way.
 
#2,386
I actually find that using my LMII with my mahogany/maple/rosewood 635, I have to boost the lows a touch, and cut the highs a touch. This is with the epifani tweeter at about 9 o'clock. Boosting the low or high mids gives me an unnatural sound that doesn't sound very pleasant to me. But I definitely need to subdue the highs on my bass. The sizzle that even my MTD has needs to be tamed a bit.
 
#2,387
Tony G said:
I actually find that using my LMII with my mahogany/maple/rosewood 635, I have to boost the lows a touch, and cut the highs a touch. This is with the epifani tweeter at about 9 o'clock. Boosting the low or high mids gives me an unnatural sound that doesn't sound very pleasant to me. But I definitely need to subdue the highs on my bass. The sizzle that even my MTD has needs to be tamed a bit.
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Yeah, I often cut the treble control on mine as well. Depending on the mix tho, and my blend setting (as if I'm favoring the bridge, especially, but sometimes even at full blend), I do find boosting the low mids (tho not a ton) helps a lot. At home it doesn't sound as "pretty" that way, but in a mix, it really works (and sounds) great. IME anyhoo.
 
#2,388
Ari said:
Yeah, I'd say Smith basses are more about "mids" than "low-mids". They have so much mids that you can cut through any mix, and you often need to cut the mids especially when slapping them.

Due to the different pickup placement, an MTD will never have as much mid punch, but in my experience they have no problem cutting through the mix either... they just do it in a different way.
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+1. That's why I always recommend those getting Smith's to make sure to get the 'series/parallel' switch option. Putting those Smith pickups in series really brings out the upper mid grind and bite that Vic is talking about, without removing the all important low mid punch that is key to sitting nicely in many mixes. While the parallel setting (the classic Smith tone) is great with those basses, it's nice to be able to switch in that grind and bite when needed.

I just posted on the Skjold thread that Pete seems to have really put it all together with his basses regarding the above... the sparkle and upper mid presence/bite of the MTD, nice low end extension but much more 'controllable' than the MTD's I've owned and played (IMO there)... and also an inherent lower mid punch that is so key to being heard and felt in a mix. Nice stuff!
 
#2,389
KJung said:
I just posted on the Skjold thread that Pete seems to have really put it all together with his basses regarding the abovee... the sparkle and upper mid presence/bite of the MTD, nice low end extension but much more 'controllable' than the MTD's I've owned and played (IMO there)... and also an inherent lower mid punch that is so key to being heard and felt in a mix. Nice stuff!
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I agree to a point, but the Skjold I had didn't have that upper sparkle the my MTD has. Not a bad thing, and I did really like the punch and grind of my old Skjold. Some days I wish I never got rid of it. That is really the only bass so far that I can think of that I regret selling.
 
#2,390
Tony G said:
I agree to a point, but the Skjold I had didn't have that upper sparkle the my MTD has. Not a bad thing, and I did really like the punch and grind of my old Skjold. Some days I wish I never got rid of it. That is really the only bass so far that I can think of that I regret selling.
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It's true that the MTDs have more highs, but I THINK what Ken is saying is, just as we typically turn our high end down on our MTDs, Pete already has that "built in" so to speak, so it's just the right amount without any adjustment. I would agree with that.
 
#2,391
Ari said:
Yeah, I'd say Smith basses are more about "mids" than "low-mids". They have so much mids that you can cut through any mix, and you often need to cut the mids especially when slapping them.

Due to the different pickup placement, an MTD will never have as much mid punch, but in my experience they have no problem cutting through the mix either... they just do it in a different way.
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I agree about cutting the mids on the Smith. The SS amp I use has low, low mid, mid, high mid and high. I cut the high mid when I play the smith.
 
#2,394
hasbeen said:
I agree, personal taste and also we're talking "degrees" here.

I attended Bass Player Live last October in Manhattan. I was working on the stage at the all star jam during sound check. ....about 20 bassits. Andrew Gouche was sounded great with his wenge neck going through an Epi rig. I was setting up Chuck Rainey's rig which was right next to Andrew. Andrew was flanked on the other side by Jonas Helbourg. Yes I'm name dropping. So what...it was a fun night. ;)

But seriously, on stage and out front Andrew got through the mix fine.
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Thanks! But that bass was Alder w/ a Bloodwood top, and a maple neck,Peace!
 
#2,397
#2,398
While I loved the Smith that I owned for a while in terms of feel and a clean, smooth tone, I couldn't get used to the midrangey tone that came through like a nasally honk at times. Most basses need a little tweaking to get the tone just right, but IMO and IME, the MTD tone is a better starting point than the Smith tone.

However, for jazz stuff and gospel, some band leaders just require that Smith tone so it is, for some, a necessary piece of the bass arsenal.
 

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