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The Pick is a tone tool!

#41
You know that's one of the reasons I come hear; you guys have fun with debate! I'm in the 'what feels good do it' camp, ouch. I'm a finger style player but enjoy the Yes sound, etc. And although it has been awhile, I'd have to use a pick on Madonna's "Open Your Heart" to play those 16th's.

I think the best solution is that which had been mentioned. Learn how to get the same tone with your fingers. In this case, use your nails on your index and ring fingers as well as 'flipping' one finger(index) for the up tempo 16th notes.

WJ-slowly walking away, feeling small, as he approaches the door to the woodshed.
 
#42
A pick played on flatwounds is one of my favorite sounds! The notes are a mile wide with really clear articulation and very percussive.

Another great example of this sound - Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle" played by Don Payne. Man, that bass sound just drives me wild!
smile.gif
If that's not your bag, so be it but that sound was very much in demand in the '70's studio scene. I'll tell you something : it doesn't matter what crappy piece of dung radio you hear that song on, the bass part jumps out clear as a bell.

And another thing!!... What makes you think you can't control your dynamic range as well with a pick? Just spend some time with it - it's possible to play as quietly as you like or as loudly as you like with a pick. It's no different. Maybe if you practiced your pick technique more, you'd discover it's not nearly as limitted as you make it out to be.

I guess I just can't understand why so many of you guys are so turned off by the pick that you would limit your tonal palatte by excluding that technique. I personally think slapping is the most overused "subtle as a brick" technique there is, but I still do it when required, because even though I have little use for it myself, sometimes it's really best for a given passage.

There are some sounds you can only get with your fingers. There are some sounds you can only get with a pick. There are some sounds you can only get by slapping. Learn all techniques and you'll be a better player.
 
#43
Sorry I spoke over my head about the flatwound thing.Im not really familiar with it.
I guess for me having a huge aurel palette to draw from is not that big of a deal.If it was I would be practicing my marimba bass right now
biggrin.gif

Aside from the fact that I dont think a pick sounds that great and limits what you can play, life is just to short in my opinion to try and master both.Again Im not down on pick players.I think there is some very decent players using them.Ive seen that guy from Beck lay down some seriously slamming **** with a pick.Very happening 16th note grooves.But I have to be honest.If he executed the exact same lines with his fingers I personlly would have been way more impressed.I guess one reason I have this snobby attitude is that I think good finger style playing takes much more skill then good pick playing.Sorry,I guess I have been exposed to one to many(very bad)shred guitar players that have excellent picking technique
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#45
Wow! Rob W, I think you have a winning argument in a losing battle.

It seems like an obvious fact that a pick can get different sounds than fingers (not better or worse, just different), but people take it personally. I am very good with my fingers but I suck with a pick, but that doesnt mean that the picks suck (even "organic" picks, which I've seen made of stone or wood).

This is sorta the same type of argument that some people have against using any signal processing. right....Felix!

 
#46
I don't hate picks.... I'm an old rocker and I hate effects. (Everybody has his own little problems). I Just have a good amp and if I use my pick I get this kind of Roger Glover, Deep Purple like sound of bass. I know he's no Jacob Patorius, but I just love that kind of sound, and my band members do and the audience does. I think that if everybody enjoys it, that gives me the right to do so. At the other hand, for the more bluesy kind of stuff, Reggae and walking bass lines, I use my fingers. Gives a complete different feel, complete different sound, without touching 1 button on my amp and without stepping on 1 peddal. But, altough nobody seems to agree on anything here, I have to agree with Jim K: I just hate Pickguards. I mean: how can you charge a few thousand bucks for a bassguitar and just cover up the holes with a piece of plastic?

(Ha, ha, ha! I bet I have offended a few million bassists now, can't wait for their venom coming back at me)

Love you all, and peace to the world!!!!
 
#48
Bassist 1: Pick your nose, and play bass with your fingers.


Bassist 2: I pick my nose with my fingers, so what should I do with my bass?


:hiding:


[note, I play both fingerstyle and pickstyle on bass]
 
#49
Yeah, well, I am "sad"...again, if my hands can't pull something off, then I need to address that problem.
Click to expand...

Of course, nail tone can be similar to some pick tones. IME, some genres call for the bassist to have a "pick+right-hand mute" tone in his/her bag o' tricks. I haven't seen anyone pull *that* tone off with fingers alone.

This coming from a guy who started as a fingers-only jazz and pop player, played a lot of indie rock in the 90's. Now, I'm again playing fingerstyle almost exclusively--not because of dogma, but because the bands I play with hardly ever call for a pick + palm mute tone.
 
#50
:D

Thanks everyone!
This thread is hilarious!
I say: There's an infinite number of tones out there! Use your fingers, use a pick, use a paperclip, use a banana, use a dead goldfish... I want to hear all those sounds! Bring 'em on!

(A pick doesn't sound organic? Well, maybe some material calls for a "plastic" bass sound! The feel is more important that the tone? Balderdash! The OP is right on the money. You go for the tone first; if the instrument feels awkward, you do a little thing I like to call... PRACTICING!) :rollno:

Yup, this thread is hilarious! HA HA HA HA HA!

:D
 
#52
Whatever floats you boat. I don't care. For picky sounds, I'll incorporate the top of my fingernails with my the top of my thumb fingernail for the unstrokes. However, for what it's worth, did you guys watch Flea at the grammy's. He played with his fingers, and then for the chorus, he ran played with a pick. EVERYBODY winner. :)
 
#53
I think Chuck Rainey also imitates a pick with his fingernails.

But the thing that kills me is this: Isn't it a GOOD thing to want to stretch yourself and try to learn new techniques? Or even to invent new techniques? I just don't quite understand people who are proud of only being able to do one thing.
Personally, fingers "feel like me", "are my personal voice", etc., but when a song calls for a pick, I'm absolutely proud to be demonstrate that I've worked on it sufficiently to be able to pull it off.
Here's my pet example of a sound that cannot be achieved any other way than by a pick: "Baby You're a Rich Man" by the Beatles. I'm sure Paul would've played it with an ashtray if that was the sound he wanted, because he is a dyed-in-the-wool, non-dogmatic experimenter. But no... he used a pick.

Well, maybe we can revisit this thread in 2014. ;)
 
#54
dougjwray said:
But the thing that kills me is this: Isn't it a GOOD thing to want to stretch yourself and try to learn new techniques?)
Click to expand...

Actually I think it's better to practice one thing and "nail it" - rather than trying to do a bit of everything and not mastering anything! :hmm:

But playing with a pick is hardly new and ground breaking - I did it from the late 70s to mid 80s and then the effects covered everything up anyway - :p

To me it now sounds hackneyed and "dated" - OK a classic sound on things like the Bullitt soundtrack or Pet Sounds etc - but that is a sound "of its time" - that was then - not now!
 
#55
I use Fingers, Fingernails and a Pick, I find all have a different feel, tone and sound quality and which I use for which song depends entirely upon what the song calls for.

When you are playing in an originals band although the casual listener won't be able to exactly place what it is, they can often tell the difference, and even for those that can't, why would I do something that in my opinion is to the detriment of the song in general, even though the difference can be very slight?

my personal belief on this issue is that you should always challenge yourself to try something knew at all times, never be afraid to think outside the box, if a Pick will work for that song - Go with it. even if the difference between the tone of that and your fingers is so subtle only you know the difference, at least then you can hand on heart say you played what the song needed.

I am still trying to learn to slap (which is harder than I first thought it would be!) and I already have a load of Ideas on how to use it and I will persevere with the technique till I get it and can use it effectivley. Maybe some of you guys who abhorr the idea of using a pick should maybe look a little way beyond the saftey of your box and try something different with an open mind and try and get the most out of it, after all isn't part of the fun in stretching your sonic limits?

Don't cry, I'm not flaming anyone here, just trying to challenge peoples imaginations to try and find a way of doing things differently. first and foremost I have to appreciate that everyone is individual, but it is all about how you approach something, always take it as an opportunity to find something new.

well guys have fun, I will! :bassist:
 
#58
It continues to amaze me to see the hostility that so many bassists seem to have toward pickstyle playing. The next thing I expect to hear is that Carol Kaye and Paul McCartney were failures in life because they used a pick. It also seems that the people who have the most hostility are the ones who play fingerstyle exclusively. As someone who plays both pickstyle and fingerstyle, it doesn't matter to me. I really don't understand why people get so emotional about this issue.
 
#59
#60
Rocker949 said:
It continues to amaze me to see the hostility that so many bassists seem to have toward pickstyle playing. The next thing I expect to hear is that Carol Kaye and Paul McCartney were failures in life because they used a pick. It also seems that the people who have the most hostility are the ones who play fingerstyle exclusively. As someone who plays both pickstyle and fingerstyle, it doesn't matter to me. I really don't understand why people get so emotional about this issue.
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The above is the only post in this thread that sounds emotional about this issue!! :p
 

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