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The Real James Jamerson Amp
- Thread starter -=DanAtkinson=-
- Start date
Cool. Yeah, in that case none of the electric instruments were purely electronically recorded. Plenty of bleed going on which is no small part of the sound.
One thing that also jumps out at me when listening to the Motown stuff - the bass really stands out in the mix. Unlike most modern recordings. This is due to the fact that the lows were drastically cut because most sound systems simply couldn't handle deep bass at the time. It sounds like everything below about 140Hz was rolled off. So you can really hear the bass. It's all low-mids.
Today so many bass tracks are mixed with tons of low end, and sometimes the low-mids are slightly cut, so you might feel a low rumble in the mix, but you can't really discern the notes being played. The bass has become a mushy, muddy mess.
When I mix, I try to emulate that vintage bass tone, so I cut the lows. This also allows the kick to occupy its own mix space. It works beautifully, and I get many compliments from musicians and mixing gurus on how great the bass sits in the mix. When I tell them I rolloff everything below 140Hz they look at me like I'm nuts.
Today so many bass tracks are mixed with tons of low end, and sometimes the low-mids are slightly cut, so you might feel a low rumble in the mix, but you can't really discern the notes being played. The bass has become a mushy, muddy mess.
When I mix, I try to emulate that vintage bass tone, so I cut the lows. This also allows the kick to occupy its own mix space. It works beautifully, and I get many compliments from musicians and mixing gurus on how great the bass sits in the mix. When I tell them I rolloff everything below 140Hz they look at me like I'm nuts.
i play live with a high pass filter on my preamp for my upright bass. once for a gig forgot to turn it off when i was using the electric. it sounded great. i always use it now. instant punch. im sure my speaker likes it better too.
Sure, but that's why being a great studio band of team players was so important- they weren't ditching and recutting parts alot. They would just do another take. True isolation wasn't as important as getting good souding relative mixes quickly. This also made being good readers and working from good arrangements vital, too. Joe Messina had to set his gain lower than whomever was playing lead on the chart, etc.
I have read that Jr. Walker's guitarist used his amp in the studio, probably other guitarists did, too. I don't know whether guitarists hold Motown "tone" in as high esteem as bassists; judging just from people whom I have gigged with over the years, probably not. I haven't played too many gigs with people using mostly clean, compressed with-a-drop-of-reverb un-eq'ed strat and tele sounds like I hear in mid 60's Motown. I wish I did!
I'm listening to all of the September/October '65 singles as I type this, and I'm hearing serious breakup/distortion in the drums, too! I Don't know how a drummer would even begin to emulate this, much less a modern studio engineer with current equipment. Sure wish drummers I played with could cop that feel, though.
Given the complexity of some of Jamerson's lines, and the flexibilty of modern equipment, it sometimes strikes me as silly, the focus on the equipment they used back then. Nonetheless, I haven't seen this pic before. Thanks for posting it!
I have read that Jr. Walker's guitarist used his amp in the studio, probably other guitarists did, too. I don't know whether guitarists hold Motown "tone" in as high esteem as bassists; judging just from people whom I have gigged with over the years, probably not. I haven't played too many gigs with people using mostly clean, compressed with-a-drop-of-reverb un-eq'ed strat and tele sounds like I hear in mid 60's Motown. I wish I did!
I'm listening to all of the September/October '65 singles as I type this, and I'm hearing serious breakup/distortion in the drums, too! I Don't know how a drummer would even begin to emulate this, much less a modern studio engineer with current equipment. Sure wish drummers I played with could cop that feel, though.
Given the complexity of some of Jamerson's lines, and the flexibilty of modern equipment, it sometimes strikes me as silly, the focus on the equipment they used back then. Nonetheless, I haven't seen this pic before. Thanks for posting it!
They didn't want the needle skipping on the record players so they normally rolled off the lows. Boosting the treble helped reduce noise on the discs.
Imagine the atmosphere in that room. Those spongy wooden floors are great when you're standing on them all day. And those wonderful Neumann mics are capturing it all. Jamerson seems to be locked on to Wonder's vocal. Talk about bleed. They are controlling the mix levels as they play so everyone has their own space in the music. Note Jamerson's bow and Wonder's harmonica on the piano.
Imagine the atmosphere in that room. Those spongy wooden floors are great when you're standing on them all day. And those wonderful Neumann mics are capturing it all. Jamerson seems to be locked on to Wonder's vocal. Talk about bleed. They are controlling the mix levels as they play so everyone has their own space in the music. Note Jamerson's bow and Wonder's harmonica on the piano.
Yes! I have attached a very detailed Schematic. It will reproduce his tone spot on perfect. The Original bass found in this schematic is still available. Other parts may be difficult to source.
Attachments
That is about the funniest thing I've ever seen on TB!!!OMG
Yes, it is!!!
I have been laughing all day long reading TB - I have yet to get to actually practicing.
I think the concept is good but shipping and shelf space will present some difficult logistics to get it in the stores.
I do believe that those are cigarette butts all over the floor - and they must have hidden the bottles of booze (but you can still see the stains from spilled drinks - lol!)
Part of the MoTown Sound!
If that drum set is "set up", then drummers must had been very limber back in those days
I imagine the drum cubicle flips around so the drummer can set behind it to minimize bleed? Thus the windows.
- Jun 25, 2006
- 3,226
- 341
- Disclosures
- Owner, Pike Amplification & 3Leaf Audio
Even when players were relatively isolated, there was still 2" tape bleed that contributed to the cohesiveness of the mix.
Don't think those guys weren't using 2" tape.
I would think an old Ampex, Scully, or 3M machine running a 1" 8-track
Dan, was there mention of the muti-track or mix tape machine?
Also curious as to the studio speakers; I'm thinking home speakers and a car radio speaker were the tools of the trade at that time.
I would think an old Ampex, Scully, or 3M machine running a 1" 8-track
Dan, was there mention of the muti-track or mix tape machine?
Also curious as to the studio speakers; I'm thinking home speakers and a car radio speaker were the tools of the trade at that time.
- Jun 25, 2006
- 3,226
- 341
- Disclosures
- Owner, Pike Amplification & 3Leaf Audio
When they were running a 1" eight track, it is interesting that they always recorded bass on track 8. The frequency response wasn't even on the eight track and the outside had a high frequency rolloff and noise so they put the bass on track 8. Yet another factor that affected the recorded sound of the bass.
As has already been mentioned, the main monitor for the musicians was below the five pre-amps and McIntosh MC-30 power amp, has been reported to be an Altec 605A. This is a 15" speaker with a multi-cell horn in the center. Looking at more recent pics, the speaker has an aluminum dust cover in the center so it is no longer a 605A.
Of the three stacked cabinets, the large cabinet at the bottom is an Altec A7-500 voice of the theater cabinet. In the control room, at least at one time, they had Altec 604 studio monitor cabinets. They had a small transmitter so they could hear the mixes in a car on the radio.
