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The Real Thing -or- Not So Real

#101
smcd said:
No, you haven't "got it".

US factory made is the real deal.
Click to expand...

You haven't "got it" either.

MIA Fenders are also copies of the "real deal" Fenders.

Just 'cause they're MIA by Fender doesn't make them any more "real deal" than the MIM, MIJ, MIK, MIC Fenders...it just makes them more expensive, and hopefully better.
 
#109
smcd said:
Nobody. Why? Because they're foreign copies, NOT the real deal.
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They are NOT copies. They are DIFFERENT MODELS AND ARE DESIGNATED AS SUCH. Why are you so adamant to prove what is already so widely known. The differences in these basses between their cheaper counterparts are plain as day and anyone who doesn't see it is blind or lying to themselves. By your definition, a US built (Fender, for example) is automatically a better playing and sounding instrument then it's MIM cousin simply because it was made here (or wherever, ie;Warwick) I'm the last person to be extolling the virtues of a Squier over a Fender because I don't like them and think they are cheap feeling for the most part, but that does not mean there arent some stock examples out there that are very much the "real deal" within the context of your own definition over some US made Fenders I've seen, played and heard. It's very much an apples to oranges scenario. One is not the other and these companies are not claiming them to be. More relative to the fact is that WE know the differences and are fully aware of such. It needs to be put into context instead of being arbitrarily labeled as "real" or not. If I went and bought a budget Ernie Ball bass, it would be just that. An object cannot assert its self as something it isn't. It is people who cast labels and follow with judgement.
 
#110
petrus61 said:
They are NOT copies. They are DIFFERENT MODELS AND ARE DESIGNATED AS SUCH. Why are you so adamant to prove what is already so widely known. The differences in these basses between their cheaper counterparts are plain as day and anyone who doesn't see it is blind or lying to themselves. By your definition, a US built (Fender, for example) is automatically a better playing and sounding instrument then it's MIM cousin simply because it was made here (or wherever, ie;Warwick) I'm the last person to be extolling the virtues of a Squier over a Fender because I don't like them and think they are cheap feeling for the most part, but that does not mean there arent some stock examples out there that are very much the "real deal" within the context of your own definition over some US made Fenders I've seen, played and heard. It's very much an apples to oranges scenario. One is not the other and these companies are not claiming them to be. More relative to the fact is that WE know the differences and are fully aware of such. It needs to be put into context instead of being arbitrarily labeled as "real" or not. If I went and bought a budget Ernie Ball bass, it would be just that. An object cannot assert its self as something it isn't. It is people who cast labels and follow with judgement.
Click to expand...

They're different, are they? Plain as day? I notice you omitted these differences in your post above. So, expain how these basses are different. Because besides the fact that they're made overseas, these basses are EXACT copies of MIA basses.
 
#112
If a company finds it good enough to put its name on it - its a real thing. No point in debating it...
Anyway, only one way to be sure your bass is a real "real thing" - get your local luthier to make it. Choose wood and parts, closely follow the process, have it modeled perfectly for your ergonomics, until it fits you like a glove. Make it unique and one of a kind.
Otherwise, it is just a factory product :(
 
#113
Regardless of it’s made, good or bad, like it or not- if the design and QC is controlled by the parent company, imo, it’s “real”.



Fake edit: Exception to this imo is when a company is bought by a completely different company just for the goodwill of the name and they don’t hold to the same standards.

I won’t mention any names (since I’m thinking amps right now), haha.
 
#114
smcd said:
They're different, are they? Plain as day? I notice you omitted these differences in your post above. So, expain how these basses are different. Because besides the fact that they're made overseas, these basses are EXACT copies of MIA basses.
Click to expand...

I guess you aren't aware of the several different US made models Fender currently offers with features exclusive to them. Here's a refresher, with Precisions as an example:

American Standard:
Graphite reinforced neck
Gloss fingerboard on maple
Gloss headstock
Lightweight Fender/Hipshot tuners
Rolled fingerboard edges
Select alder body
String through
Thinner poly finish
"custom shop" pickup

American Vintage:
1.75 nut width
nitro finish
'vintage' bridge with threaded saddles
.01 cap
repro "vintage" pickup with base plate
pickguard shield
vintage reverse tuners

American Special:
Greasebucket tone circuit
slimmer neck profile
graphite neck support

Can you show me the specs on the imported EXACT copies you speak of?
 
#115
The end.
Click to expand...

I liked that bit the best. When I started playing in the late '70s, plenty of seasoned types said that the current Fenders were bad news and Tokais etc were a better buy. The stories of Fender execs' reaction to the Japanese RIs presented to them are illuminating and on the record. They did not go there simply because of cheaper labour costs. Marcus Miller, listening to him, would consider the MIJ version of his bass to be the "real deal", whatever that means.

I could've had a '70s USA Jazz back in the 90s for £300 and I didn't, because it was awful. The fact that I could sell it now for £1000 just means that, taking inflation into account, I would've broken even after twenty years of playing a badly-made lump. On the flip-side, a £67 MIK (nice, alder) sold for £200 and they're still rising. MIJs have been doing that for ages. Once the CNCs start doing their job, it's really just a question of how diligent the QC is. And, for that, I'd put my money on the Japanese and the Germans.

"Real deal" means original country of origin* - OK, I'm fine with that as a line-in-the-sand concept but dressing it up with "anything else is poorly made by slobs and always depreciates in value" is wide of the mark.
 

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