The Tone Thread

[fretlessman71]

I thought it would be interesting to see what people had to say on the broad subject of tone production. If you've been at this a while, you probably have a philosophy that works for you, and the ideas within may be big news to someone else who hadn't thought of it that way. So this is intended to be a place where you can pontificate and expound upon your concept of booty-shakin' bass tone until you're blue in the fingertips. It's ALSO intended to be a place where you can comment on someone else's brilliant idea, or help someone out with a problem they might have.

In the end, I'd like to see this become an interesting "meeting of the minds" thread regarding what kind of tone people want, why they want it, how to get their tone through a mix, how to get their tone without drowning everyone else out, and just a general discussion on TONE. Because my searches didn't find anything like that here, and if there was such a thing, it needed to be updated anyway.

I'll start:

I have found that the tone begins in the fingers, and decreases in importance with every new item in the chain (barring gear not working properly or having to use substandard gear). A lot of my technique concept centers around being able to produce a clean sound with any instrument under any circumstances... although that's not always what I'm after.

I favor brighter strings than duller strings, preferring to control the brightness with my fingers, so I lean toward steel strings when possible.

Pickups are a personal choice, of course - I have Fralins in my MIM Jazz V. HUGE upgrade over the stock pickups. They definitely sound like an older, warmer bass with a lot more personality than before.

I like onboard EQ, but I also like not having to use it if I don't have to. It's a security blanket for me. Using an Audere JZ3 currently.

Only using a few effects, but I'm very happy with my Boss Limiter/Enhancer. Still learning how to use it properly - I'm always fiddling with the knobs during shows trying to get it just right - but I know the tone is in there 'cause I've nailed it a few times now. I'm really looking to replicate the effect that my Fender practice amp has on basses - they're all very warm sounding, they never clip or distort, but they never get any louder past about 4 on the volume knob. I'm sure there's some sort of limiter built into the practice amp so the speakers don't get shredded and so on, and it would be interesting to replicate that sound for certain things. Also have a vintage Boss CE-2 Chorus MIJ w/metal screw that I like a lot, but I do notice that it sucks a fair amount of bottom end out when I kick it in. Might try running that in front of the limiter to see if that changes anything...

For me, amps (at least solid state amps) are there only to be loud and reproduce the tone of the instrument as faithfully as possible (I think TBers call that "transparent"?). So anything that is loud and clean (and small - can't move heavy gear anymore) works well. I have a PJB Briefcase, but am looking to upgrade to the Flightcase 250w sometime soon.

Also updating my Ampeg SB-12. Looking forward to rediscovering the joys of vintage tube amplification.

 

[fretlessman71]

A lot of you have read this; now it's YOUR turn. I'm hoping to learn a lot from you folks!

 

[fourstringdrums]

My bass tone revolves around my love for old school P bass thump and grind, mainly guys like Jamerson and Bruce Thomas, but I've come to love Bob Babbitt as well.

Bass: Fender Highway One Precision. The Precision is *the* bass for me. I couldn't play anything else because nothing else gets the fat, low, round, grinding tone that a Precision does.

Pickups: The stocks were ok but I preferred a slightly hotter tone with better string balance so I installed Nordstrand NP4's. I also put in a .1uf cap for a darker tone and more versatility along the tone control span.

Strings: Flats. Currently Fender 9050ML's but I'm debating going to heavier strings like the Labella Jamerson set.

Pedals: All the bassists I really love seem to have a slightly compressed edge to their tone so I run the bass into a Jacques Fat Burner compression. Muscle is set to anywhere between 10 & 2 (I'm still figuring it out), with Compression on 9. I usually leave the volume on the bass up all the way to get the maximum bass output to affect the compression, and the volume on the pedal is at 9 because if it was any higher I'd blow my neighbors out of their house.

Amp: Ashdown MAG C115-300. I love 15" speakers for their fuller, vintage tone, and lower response though 12's are nice as well. The only EQing I do is to bump the bass up to 3:00 and the low mids to 2:00. Everything else is flat though I've been experimenting with bumping the mids a bit, and possibly cutting high mids. I'm still learning what kind of an affect mids have on the tone. My input gain is almost all the way up but I'm getting close to running into the red so I back it off just slightly.

Other than that my tone is also in my hands. I'm still exploring that too but right it's just a matter of playing anywhere along the length of the body from the neck to the bridge in order to get the level of roundness/warmth or attack/edge that I'm looking for. Of course with the compression I can achieve more affect just by how hard and in what way I dig in. I of course also use the tone control anywhere from 0% - 40% or so.

I'm just a basement dweller and this is my first time in about 6-7 years of really getting to the heart of the tone I like and trying to understand it.

 

[Visirale]

Basses: I prefer something with a high build quality stock. I don't really like changing out stuff. So far I've done well with ash bodies and maple fingerboards and I doubt I'll change that anytime soon. I like active basses because I can make relatively drastic tone changes without walking back to the amp and redoing settings. I can also make small adjustments on the fly in a split second of downtime to fine tune my sound for the given situation.

Pickups: I like them good stock. No need to buy an expensive bass and then pay even more to change out the pickups. I like an aggressive sound. Something that gives me that grindy pickstyle tone without having to use a pick. I like to be connected with my bass on a physical level, but like the grind and the attack that pick offers, but hate picks. Thus I have two very midrange focused basses.

Strings: Nothing too special here. EBMM on my ray and Sads on my Sadowsky. Change them every month or so to keep 'em fresh. Medium or light gauge on both.

Pedals: Right now I have an EBS multidrive to warm up my amp. As soon as I get my new head in, it will be on the block. I prefer to be able to control everything from one unit and my new head will have a footswitch and onboard overdrive that kills. I used to be really into synth bass sounds, but no pedals ever came close... so for those sounds I got a midi controller and some good software.

Amp: Currently a markbass. I initially loved it, and still do. But now I'm wanting some more warmth and roundness in my tone. I'm getting a head with all tube preamps and an amazing overdrive circuit (Mesa titan v12). I think that one will stick for a while. Did the tube thing for a while, but always left me wanting more clean headroom. The LMII gave me all the clean headroom I wanted, but didn't have the tone I was looking for. I think I will finally have the best of both the tube and ss worlds. As for speakers I swear by my 212 but after playing through a mesa 610 I wouldn't be too surprised if I got a mesa 810 at some point.

I play all fingerstyle... an occasional pop/slap in there. Pretty rootsy style with some occasional nice R/B licks thrown in. I prefer to control dynamics with my fingers. My old bass teacher said that basses were designed to be played at full volume and full finger force at all times, and a volume pedal should be used to control dynamics... that never caught on with me. I prefer the tone differences between playing soft and playing loud.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Here are my considerations on my approach to tone.

- Basically, I can say that I try to be the most eclectic possible. I mean, I like to have a bit of everything in my tone: Bass is the backbone of the band, so I try to get a fat tone, but I don't like it muffled. So I like highs as well, but not pure clank. A decent amount of mids (Something that most old-school musicians seem not to accept or understand where I live) but not to the point to sound like a goose through an old radio. So, as far as I have an amp and cab setup that gives me full control over most of the audible spectrum for a 5-string bass guitar, I'm happy with that. That's why I prefer bass cabs with an HF horn. I don't think I'm a "complicated" guy in terms of dialing the tone I want. I feel very confident about my ability of turning every knob or moving every slider up to the exact point in which the affected frequency starts to be noticed. That's what I always do before a gig. I hate when I don't hear any difference after moving a graphic EQ slider because the cab doesn't have enough frequency response to reflect the change. Of course, when that happens, it's only on extreme points of the spectrum.

- If I have an amp with sweepable midrange EQ, first I put mid frequency level at max, then find the mid frequency I like and then re-set the mid level to an adequate value. Comparing the sweepable mid EQ with a wah-wah pedal, I'd say I like it in the middle, but slightly leaning toward the fully open position.

- Never use any kind of compression, although I must admit that it's in great part due to the fact that I don't really know how to use it, I think => In my experience, compressors scoop mids and I don't like that.

- I like the sound of a good passive bass, but I'm definitely an "active" kind of player. I use steel roundwounds on my fretted basses and flats on my fretless.

- My fingerstyle tone is very percussive. I've found that I don't feel "at home" when asked to play something with "no attack" at all.

 

[RickenBoogie]

There's a million different ways of going about crafting your individual sound. I start with a Ric 4003, swap out the higain for a toaster at the neck, run that through a compressor, a couple of preamps, and some eq, (all pedals), then on to either a Mesa or Ampeg bass head, and either Ampeg or Epifani speaker cabs. I love the result, every time. At some point, I'll add a Schroeder cab at the end, but essentially, my tone is there already.

 

[fretlessman71]

There's a million different ways of going about crafting your individual sound. I start with a Ric 4003, swap out the higain for a toaster at the neck, run that through a compressor, a couple of preamps, and some eq, (all pedals), then on to either a Mesa or Ampeg bass head, and either Ampeg or Epifani speaker cabs. I love the result, every time. At some point, I'll add a Schroeder cab at the end, but essentially, my tone is there already.

It sounds wild! How would you describe the tone you're getting/going after? Is there a point in doing it "just so" that no other way works for what you want in your tone?

 

[K-Funk]

Basses: I'm not an effect guy by any stretch of the imagination, so I really like having a small army of different instruments available that I can coax different tones from. I'm also not the kind of guy that can pick a single tone I love and use that for everything. My band is quite mercurial, so my tones have to follow suit. When I want some grinding, beefy, slightly zingy sounds, I grab my Musicman Stingray. For vintage woof and thump, my Fortress Flashback. For modern gospel-like low-end, my 5-string Fortress One. For spanky, bright, chunky sounds, my Thumb 5-string. However, each bass isn't completely dedicated to a single sound; for example, I can make my Flashback sound like a P-bass, or Jaco Pastorius. And it's all passive. So, when the human element is added to my instruments, I can get whatever sound I want. And for the last couple of years, I'm always happiest behind a 5-string.

Pickups: I only swap pickups if I'm trying to polish a turd, or if it's the only tweak an instrument needs before I totally fall in love with it. My two 5-string Warwicks are perfect. On my Flashback, the pickups make the bass what it is, and changing them out would totally strip that away. The exception is my MIM Jazz. As I run out and buy much more high-end instruments, my little J-bass gets less and less attention. So I perform an upgrade. I swore I'd never sell it (it's my first "real" bass), so to keep it in action, I upgrade.

Strings: I use bright, fresh D'Addario nickel-plated steel strings on my basses, but occasionally I'll let them die on my Fortress One 5-string to give it some more thumping low-end. My Flashback came with 4-year old D'Addario Chromes that I've yet to change.

Pedals: I'm not a pedal guy. I used to be obsessed with having a giant pedalboard, but now I'm into getting as much tone from my hands and the instrument itself as possible. So right now, I very seldom use pedals. The only ones I do occasionally use are a Digidelay, a Boss OC-2 octave, and a Boss guitar EQ.

Amp: I'm totally obsessed with my '88 Mesa/Boogie Bass 400. It's the perfect amp for me, and I'm never letting it go. I went through GK's, Ampegs, and other Mesas before I found this guy. It was made the year I was born, and unlike older 400's it's got output taps for 2-ohm loads. Right now, it's got a full complement of JJ tubes (6L6GC's in the power amp) and an EH 12AU7 in the driver seat for even more clean headroom. For cabinets, I'm looking to get either a Mesa 4x10 or 2x12, or possibly even a 2x15. I used to own an Ampeg 8x10 and 6x10, but they were just impractically large for the stuff I'm doing.

Playing style: I play both fingerstyle and pickstyle on all my instruments, with my main picks being green Tortex Jazz .88mm (the little guys). After severely damaging my left wrist with terrible bouts of CTS and tendonitis last year, I've made it top priority to practice good technique. I only slap and tap when I'm dicking around; I've found little purpose for it in my music.

 

[Boombass76]

Hi,

I have found that a not so charming tone when played solo can be the best (most usable) and effective in a real band situation.

Often, I have tried basses that sounded amazing on its own (Lakland, Sadowsky, Mørch, MTD, etc.), but have lacked the ablity to really cut through in a funk, pop/rock context. At least for my kind of playing style and idea of a good (effective) tone in such genres.

My main inspiration tonewise is a Fender Jazz kinda sound that you can play rather aggressively, and I don't mind that you can hear the frets growl once in a while. I have a Fender Jazz with an internal Mørch preamp and Mørch pickups that really does the job. I also have two Celinders (5-strings) that have that certain "smack" in the mid-area that gets the sound through. On the other hand, I have a Mørch Custom 5-string and a MTD 635 as well that both are great instruments, but can't cut through as niceliy as the others.

Therefore, I usual use the Mørch and MTD for jazz gigs (when not playing double bass), which they are perfect for, and the Celinders for funk, rock, pop kinda gigs.

I also have a handful og external preamps and effects for tone shaping (Mørch, Aguilar DB924, SamsAmp, BBE Sonic Maximizer), which works OK with certain basses, but I have found that I much prefer the basses that sound good going straight into the amp.

However, all of these views apply to live situations only. In my home studio (just a Mac with a RME interface and a Focusrite ISA 428 preamp), I often use various external preamps to shape a certain sound and I also find the MTD very usable for slap/funk styles. I guess, that it is because you have a much better control over each individual instrument (including individual drums) than you have on stage.

By the way, I totally agree with fretlessman71 that good tone probably begins at your fingertips. I have been lucky to play with a band that performed with the great guitar-player Robben Ford, and what amazed me the most (apart from superior musical insight and virtuosity) was the fact that he showed up only bringing a Les Paul and a cable. We had arranged for him to borrow a Fender Combo (Twin Reverb, i think) and a volume pedal at a local music store. The second he pugged in for the rehersal, we heard that significant signature sound from all his great albums... No effects, no preamps, etc. Pure tone and OD from the amp - he controlled the clean/OD tone with the volume pedal. That convinced me that good tone really hasn't much to do with gear...!

 

[BassDudeSA]

Funny thing about bass tone. I've been playing over 30 years and have been playing live for that length as well as having seen many local and big time bands. Obviously trying to get the best tone possible is a good thing, but at least in rock music, which is what I have experience in as a player and as a listener, the tone, whether good or bad is often a mute point, at least as far as live goes. Tone definitely matters on recordings when it can be heard, but in live situations, most basses sound relatively similar, except for the few times that the guitars aren't wailing and the bass is soloing or just playing with the drums only. The most evident and important aspect of tone for bass is the EQ. Too much bass is blurry, too much treble causes fret buzz sounds and it sounds crackly, etc. Find the right EQ in a given room and you will be way better off than what kind of pups you use, or effects or any of the other gadgets or mods people often use to try to get "the best tone". It amazes me the money people spend and the work they put into something that often ends up not really mattering. Stand right in front of your amp or play by yourself at home and you'll notice subtle differences. From the audience's point of view, the EQ is all that matters. A Squier can easily sounds as good or better than a Sadowsky if the EQ is set properly. Most basses just sound alike from the audience perspective.

I thought I would add that as far as how I do go about getting the best tone in a live situation is simply having relatively new strings (roundwounds for me) and adjusting the EQ as necessary during a soundcheck to make sure the bass sounds clear and deep enough while cutting through the mix. How the bass sounds by itself does not matter, so I always adjust EQ after hearing how it sounds with everybody playing in a particular room. The bass itself doesn't really matter, I have about 20 of varying quality (most pretty decent) and I adjust as needed. I can tell the difference between them, but nobody else can. I just play straight into a Carvin amp. Works for me. Depending on the acoustics of a given room, sometimes the bass sounds great, sometimes not so great.

 

[cnltb]

Tone is an interesting one!!

For me it is work in progress.
For a long time have I had a certain "ideal tone" in my head and have since that time to adjust my equipment in order to accomodate that idea of the " ideal tone".
At this time I think that I am real close and my current bass gets closest than any other bass I have had.
It is a bolt on, has a one piece alder body a one piece slab sawn maple neck and a brazilian rosewood board.
A fairly light bridge , string through body.
One single pickup wired directly to the socket.

With the pickup I wanted something that "just" gets me the tone of the instrument as played unplugged.
This one gets real close and nothing feels hyped.
The preamp has no EQ or any other "features". Just one volume button. It just goes from a nice poweramp to two 2x10 cabs.
I am thinking about possibly adjusting the cab front but am not sure at the moment as I like those 2x10s a lot. I feels that the mids are a little supressed .
At the cable front I tend to use vovox, anasysis plus, van den hul. Sometimes a zaolla.
The van den hul ("the second") is my current favourite, followed by van den hul ("integration hybled") and analysis plus( pro oval studio).

Now back to practicing

 

[mongo2]

IME, the most important element of tone is the processor that sits between the ears.

 

[fretlessman71]

IME, the most important element of tone is the processor that sits between the ears.

Yeah, but sometimes you have to adjust it with a well-sharpened screwdriver.

 

[fretlessman71]

Isn't it interesting how we all have a reasonably similar idea of what a good tone is - big and round, but present in the final mix - but rather different ideas of how to go about it. And BassDude (go Seahawks! ) made a great point - bass isn't a solo instrument, so our final bass "tone" is largely a composite of what we sound like combined with our band members and the room and how many people are in it at the time.

So to further this on a bit: Who has a particular philosophy concerning compressors and limiters? What's your "process" for dialing up a good sound with one?

 

[fourstringdrums]

So to further this on a bit: Who has a particular philosophy concerning compressors and limiters? What's your "process" for dialing up a good sound with one?

I'm not that experienced with compressors, so in trying to use one to get a similar tone to the other bassists I admire, I just used my ears. I basically try to get as compressed of a sound I can without having nothing but attack in the sound and it sounding too strangled.

I did some research, read Bongomania's FAQ and reviews and pestered him over PM's a few times

 

[Tom Howland]

Oh the quest for tone???

Bass- Passive fretted and fretless 4-strings (Fenders)
MTD 535, MTD J5.
Pickups-I prefer passive, but MTD's have active/passive, switch.
Strings-TI flats- for 4-strings DR-Sunbeams for 5-strings.
I like old strings, never change flats, rounds once every yr.
Pedals- the more tube tone, the better.
Barber-"Linden Bass" EQ. Greer-"Buttertone ", OLCircuits-
"Equlipse Valve ".
Amps- I use more pedals with my SS Ampeg B100R. (small gigs)
Also use, Ampeg V4BH-6x10 cab. (Big gigs)
Style- Mostly, finger, some pick and slap.
Old school, Jamerson, Pino, Sir Paul, Duck Dunn.
Play the song, make everyone sound good.

I've spent 20 years, and a s**t load of money.
And now I;m back to the tone, I started with.
Who knew?

 

[bikeplate]

Hi

Tone is a funny subject. Everyone's ear is a bit different. Being bassists, most people, soundmen, fellow bandmembers really dont care that much about our tone. WE care, thats about it or the guy in the audience who is a bassist. LOL

For this reason, I dont fixate on that part of it. My tone is a personal thing. I love the sound I produce and I'm proud of it

Being a professional bassist, it has to be versatile. It has to be able to support a ballad, disco song, R&B tune, or Metallica!! This is very important.

For these reasons, Ive settled on jazz style basses with JJ pickups or PJ pickups. They are the most versatile tonewise, comfy to play, great necks generally. I rotate 5 Sadowsky basses. Fretless 4, JJ4, JJ4/24 fret, PJ4, JJ5. The best bass for me, without a doubt

Amps I use an Epifani 502 and Sadowsky SA200 tube head. Cabs are Epifani(various) and a Sadowsky 2x10

I dont care for effects but they are necessary for my work. I use an EBS compressor, Ananlog man chorus, Micropog, and Voodoo lab overdrive.

Love Stainless Steel strings, the newer the better. Feel better to me, sound better to my ears and style.

All this coupled with my abilities allows me to cover most any type of gig from dance to hard rock without issues.

All that being said, it comes down to your mind and hands. If you cant find the pocket, you cant find the pocket. Some of my fave players and peers use "average" gear with great results. Some use "pricey" gear, too.

Fixating on gear shouldnt be the mindset. That being said, quality basses and rigs are important. Presentation as a pro is very important. Faulty gear is not an option

Its a great feeling when you "find your sound". Nice knowing you can do your gig without fiddling with knobs and such all night long. Much easier to express yourself

Rob

 

[kirkm24]

Bass: I use a MusicMan Stingray 3 band EQ 4H. I cut treble back to almost 25%, bass gets boosted to 75% and mids are usually left flat (50%) or slightly boosted (about 60%). On the P bass, I roll the tone knob back to about 25% on.

Strings: Ernie Ball Slinky Hybrids medium guage. I like them to dull down a little so I only change them out about once every 6 months unless I am gigging or playing a lot or playing outdoor gigs where more perspiration is involved. I like them dull but not dead. After you play a set of Slinky's about 4 or 5 times they dull down and almost sound like flats.

Pickups: Stock on the MM and Fralins on the P

Effects: I used to be into pedals big time and bought all kinds of fancy boutique pedals but sold them all after I realized I didn't need them.

Amp: Markbass LMII into an Avatar 210 and 112 cabinet or just the 210 for smaller gigs. I turn the VLE filter to about 11 o' clock and the VPF filter to about 9 o' clock or less. All other controls are left flat except for maybe a slight Low and Low mid boost.

Playing Style: Fingerstyle 98% of the time with an occasional slap or pop here or there. I never use a pick. I play over the pickup most of the time but for some real vintage thump I play over the fretboard. I wouldn't say I really dig in aggressively but I don't play like a mouse either.

I'm really not that picky about my tone overall. As long as it doesn't sound like complete mud or complet clank and it cuts through the mix, I'm pretty happy. The Stingray is the best live performance bass I have ever used. The P bass has a certain vintage charm that you just can't get with anything else.

 

[LifeIsBass]

I'm very happy to say, after spending a ton of money over the last few years, that the quest for "my" tone is complete.

Everyone says that tone is in your fingers, and to a certain extent that's true. BUT...most basses have a "voice" that is unique to that particular bass. People do anything and everything they can do to try to change that voice to match their ideal tone but ultimately it's to no avail. For me, finding "my" tone was simply a matter of finding the right equipment.

The thing I found is that a lot of basses sounded really good for one application, but not as good for others. For example, I found basses that I really liked for slap style, but not so much for fingerstyle. That just wasn't acceptable. Finally, I got a Roscoe, which does everything perfectly for me.

So..."my" tone is:

Roscoe bass (Bart PUs)
Epifani UL cabs
DR Hi Beams
Markbass LMII

It was that simple.


The moral of the story is that I think you just have to spend a lot of time (and possibly money) experimenting to find the right equipment. I don't believe in doing a ton of mods on a bass to try to change it to what you want it to be. If it doesn't work for you right from the start, it probably never will.

 

[spade2you]

Tone is a funny subject. Everyone's ear is a bit different. Being bassists, most people, soundmen, fellow bandmembers really dont care that much about our tone. WE care, thats about it or the guy in the audience who is a bassist. LOL

Sounds fairly accurate. I've heard people recently say, "oh, so it's not like people can hear if you mess up......"

Technique: fairly along the lines of Gary Willis. Coming from electric and classical guitar, there's a lot of finnesse in my playing. I have a fairly light touch, but I'm able to hit notes harder if I need that emphysis.

Basses: here are where the arguments get ugleee. Some will say it's all in the hands, but seriously, some basses are caple of certain tones. Some might be able to cover more ground than others, but there is no universal bass and nobody can make one bass sound like everything out there. Rather than fight this or deny it, I embrace that basses have different tones. I do my best to find which tone works best for a given song from the deep low end of my Mouse 30 to the high end tones of my Conklin. I prefer active because I'm given some extra tonal shaping abilities.

Amp: If ya really set an amp up a certain way, you can make any bass sound the same. Boring! I expect my amp to be capable of handling the low end and high end with ease.