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Double Bass The Traeger Bass Book Is Here
- Thread starter Bob Branstetter
- Start date
I was quoting from the Traeger book, I don't know what page it was on. He was referring to the luthier's industry of avoiding "ironwork" in repairing. Yes, it is used competently in rental/school instruments, but to get behind its virtues is dangerous. When will the novice go to far and use them in the wrong situation?
uptonbass
Proprietor, Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
This must be why he lag bolted a neck on a 38 Kay, then once it failed a year later we fixed it the right way. A very nice Kay that was truly ruined. Let the work speak for it's self.
The thing that amazes me is that this thread - even after 4 or 5 months dormant - just won't die.
uptonbass
Proprietor, Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
Ok now we are onto it, when did we (if ever) hear about this guy? AND if we saw or hear about his work was it good?
NOTE: I wrote these as questions
How about the phrase "He wrote the book" that doesn't mean you actually have to write a book.....maybe if they say that about you THEN you actually write the book. ??
NOTE: I wrote these as questions
How about the phrase "He wrote the book" that doesn't mean you actually have to write a book.....maybe if they say that about you THEN you actually write the book. ??
uptonbass
Proprietor, Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
Ken, yeah you should throw all those basses out. Well actually since I am such a nice guy I'll take care of it for you....so I'll see you at 6?
How about that batch of Aubert Deluxe #8 violin bridges sold at auction. I think it was 42 of them from the deceased Arthur Thoman.....wasn't it like $6,000
Originally purchased by Thoman in 82 sold at auction recently, lets add what say.....8 years onto 82. OLD SEASONED DELUXE #8's that's a catch. But this guy would toss them cause they are what.....30 years plus.....sounds like a good way to keep your customers getting new bridges.
He can't just say these things and be taken seriously. To be so off on something like this negates all validity.
How about that batch of Aubert Deluxe #8 violin bridges sold at auction. I think it was 42 of them from the deceased Arthur Thoman.....wasn't it like $6,000
Originally purchased by Thoman in 82 sold at auction recently, lets add what say.....8 years onto 82. OLD SEASONED DELUXE #8's that's a catch. But this guy would toss them cause they are what.....30 years plus.....sounds like a good way to keep your customers getting new bridges.
He can't just say these things and be taken seriously. To be so off on something like this negates all validity.
I think it is reasonable to assume that someone who buys the book either already knows about this thread, or will hear about it eventually. And anyone who is of a mind to look into these things in the first place must also realize that you can't get all of your knowledge from one source, you shouldn't believe everthing you read, you should take blanket statements with a grain of salt, etc. Then again that was a bit of a blanket statement, wasn't it?
There are certainly more serious and far-reaching negative influences that a person could be led to believe.
There are certainly more serious and far-reaching negative influences that a person could be led to believe.
Just a reminder to all participants of this thread that, much as I am enjoying my popcorn, this thread comes up on the first page of any google search using "traeger bass book" as keywords. That being the case, I think the chances that Mr. Traeger will eventually read this thread seem to be, statistically speaking....I dunno, maybe about 99.99%?
Just thought everyone might want to keep that in mind as you get about the business of your discussion.
As a player who finds luthiery just short of voodoo, I am not qualified to say just how crazy some of these quoted ideas are, but certainly a reasoned discussion of some of the more controversial ideas in the book can't hurt anything as long as it remains civil.
Just thought everyone might want to keep that in mind as you get about the business of your discussion.
As a player who finds luthiery just short of voodoo, I am not qualified to say just how crazy some of these quoted ideas are, but certainly a reasoned discussion of some of the more controversial ideas in the book can't hurt anything as long as it remains civil."How about that batch of Aubert Deluxe #8 violin bridges sold at auction. I think it was 42 of them from the deceased Arthur Thoman.....wasn't it like $6,000"
SUCKER!
SUCKER!
KSB - Ken Smith said:
LOL-- either one of the stupidest statements ever uttered or a concert-goer with a sense of humor.
Duh- gee Mr. Smith, won't it depreciate as soon as it leaves your shop? Can I lease it instead? Will you offer an extended warranty for once I go beyond 100,000 pizzicati? Has it ever been in an accident? Can I get a history from BassFax? It just doesn't have that "new bass smell" anymore.
Jeff Bollbach
Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.
I disagree with the stones Gary and Nnick are casting towards "ironwork". [never thought I'd see those guys agree on sumpin!] I would be of the opinion that there are many times when metal may be called for in non-institutional settings. If someone brings me a $4000 bass with a broken neck is it worth doing a 3k neck graft on it? If it is a commercial scroll? Often these breaks are old and contaminated and will not glue up well. Also many new broken necks rarely line up well for a good joint due to splintering in the break's face. Many of these breaks can be effectively fiixed with lags and screws. For a lot less money than 3k-not every musician is in a place to say "Spare no expense!". That being said metal needs to be used judiciously. If your neck is cracked at the "d" crook all the way thru and you throw a thousand screws into it the bass's value isn't really gonna be in jeapardy. The neck's pretty much screwed to begin with. However the last Traegar work to come thru my shop did involve some poorly judged metalwork. It was an average Czech carved bass that the owner wanted the neck pulled on to elevate it. I set about removing the neck and was unable to do so eventually discovering that the neck was bolted on by a large squarehead screw thru the bottom of the neck block into the bottom endgrain of the neckheel. This either had to be screwed in while the top was off or thru the endpin hole. This neck was on tight and it wasn't comeing out. The shortsightedness of this repair was in not seeing the possible repercussions of it. If you dropped the bass on the neck there were two likely outcomes. One, the neck breaks- at the scroll, at the crook, or even in the middle. Two, the neck torques the neck block resulting in an horrific body fracture. I first thought that I had to take the top off to get at this screw but eventually I went to my machinist and he fashioned a tool to reach through the ep hole and take the screw out. It wasn't easy.
Jeff Bollbach said:
[don't worry, it won't last...
]You disagree with my casted stone, then proceed to give us all an example/mistake that CT made in using metalwork? You should be a lawyer...lol.
I thought I would chime in here just to say most of us Luthier cats have prolly seen some of these bolt/screw/lag type of repairs before as Jeff has mentioned and the repercussions are terrible in most cases to deal with.Jeff Bollbach said:
That being said I have had very good sucess instead using the West System epoxy in these applications only.I carfully clean the cracks and try my best to get them back in line and then glue and clamp.The repair is stronger than the break,doesn't seem to effect the bass tonally,[If anything it helps the instrument] and I have never had one bass come back for a re-repair.Again this is the only time I use epoxy for a bass repair...something that you want to be strong and perminant.I feel this has kinda replaced the old style way of doing the same repair w. the 'Ironworks'.
I'd say the guys that are swingin' the axes aren't exactly enhancing their reps either. I mean, really...Traeger mentions right up front in his book that his methods are his and his alone, and considered unorthodox and even heretical by others. Why should he have to come here and explain anything more than that? Pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and cast stones...especially when you have no book of your own forthcoming, eh?
You guys finished yet?
So you disagree with some of Traeger's ideas and methods. Fine, you're entitled. Did you find anything of value in those 377 pages, or were you unable to stop giggling and guffawing long enough to read it?
Experienced pro luthier Arnold Schnitzner found some good advice, and managed to express a negative opinion with class and respect. See post #96 in this thread.
Experienced pro luthier Bob Branstetter also found value in the book. I refer you to post #1. He's also a proponent of AO BO matching. Perhaps, as a little change of pace, you'd like to slag Mr. Branstetter for a while? Easy pickin's, he's not here to defend his opinions either.
In my opinion, some of the behaviour in this thread has been unprofessional, classless and infantile in the extreme. You demean the man with your schoolyard humour, and by extension you poke fun at anyone who has "wasted" their money buying his book.
If I may be so bold as to make the suggestion:
Grow the hell up. Soon. Please and thanks.
Sorry Chris, it's a threshold thing.
So you disagree with some of Traeger's ideas and methods. Fine, you're entitled. Did you find anything of value in those 377 pages, or were you unable to stop giggling and guffawing long enough to read it?
Experienced pro luthier Arnold Schnitzner found some good advice, and managed to express a negative opinion with class and respect. See post #96 in this thread.
Experienced pro luthier Bob Branstetter also found value in the book. I refer you to post #1. He's also a proponent of AO BO matching. Perhaps, as a little change of pace, you'd like to slag Mr. Branstetter for a while? Easy pickin's, he's not here to defend his opinions either.
In my opinion, some of the behaviour in this thread has been unprofessional, classless and infantile in the extreme. You demean the man with your schoolyard humour, and by extension you poke fun at anyone who has "wasted" their money buying his book.
If I may be so bold as to make the suggestion:
Grow the hell up. Soon. Please and thanks.
Sorry Chris, it's a threshold thing.
uptonbass
Proprietor, Upton Bass String Instrument Co.
Chris Fitzgerald said:
EXACTLY what I intended to do comment about the book AND the work I HAVE seen.
With so little published material on this subject I feel rash things need to be stated so that readers don't take it as the gospel. When you know about a subject it's easy to say that beginners will sort the info, not always the case
Paul, thanks for your kind comments, man........
Here I am trying to be factual about this etc. and now I get thrown under the bus. It's America man what part did you not like about my post what was wrong with it? PLEASE be factual and not just throw an insult. Again EXACTLY what I was trying NOT to do about the book. I tried to stay factual and not go off on something about the person etc.
Eric, please outline how I may have poked fun?
Just so everyone is clear - and hopefully so I can stem the prodigious flow of PMs to my inbox - my recent comments in this thread are GENERAL in nature, simply reminders to everyone and no-one in particular that we are discussing the work of a living person who in all likelihood either has or will read this thread. I'm not saying at all that critical comments are not welcome at TB. Rather, I am suggesting that everyone keep in mind that while this might be a friendly neighborhood pub where the regulars sit, drink, and talk (sometimes in a "catty" mode, as pubgoers will), the happenings at our little pub are being broadcast all over the world 24/7.
That's all my comments were intended to convey. Please rest assured that if I wished to single anyone out, I'd be way more direct than that.
That's all my comments were intended to convey. Please rest assured that if I wished to single anyone out, I'd be way more direct than that.
Eric Jackson said:
I hope I didn't come across as a TC basher.Rather,I have learned alot from the book [The little 15mm spread trick w. the tailpiece cable amazes me almost everyday] I believe it is a great resource,but certainatly not the new bass bible.
I only commented today on the 'Ironworks' stuff as I do not concure w.Mr.Traeger's thoughts on using these things for neck repairs.They may hold for years, but not for ever and I find myself having to reverse these type of repairs way to often.Not alot of fun...I feel the book is a step in the right direction to push the bass world forward both from a player and a luthier's point of view.If it starts a trend on raising the bar,then thats a good thing.
uptonbass said:
uptonbass said:...GO GO Treager! Hey write a book on it, oh wait he did. Nick as you would say
uptonbass said:
uptonbass said:
Do you consider this factual discussion of the book, Gary? I certainly don't. Reads more like a flame job to these eyes. If you and your pal Ken want to share a laugh over replacing his bridges and selling his collection because 'Traeger says so', I'd suggest you do it via pm. This sort of juvenile stuff really isn't becoming.
Do you understand what I mean when I say "by extension", Gary? Do you see how you can state one thing and imply something related? Considering the above quotes and the fact that you have not posted a single positive word about Traeger's book, that the tone of your exchange with Ken was one of "poking fun" at Traeger and anyone who shares his opinions, one might reasonably conclude that you feel the purchase of said book is a waste of money. Perhaps rather than extrapolating I'll ask you directly: Is it your opinion that I've wasted my money? You are, of course, welcome to your opinion even if I don't share it. We should all respect each other's opinions.
