I've never heard of a jazz musician who wanted to play country. Come to think of it, I've never heard of a jazz musician who would even listen to country.
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The unicorn
- Thread starter wcnewby
- Start date
Sorry to hear about your situation. Sounds like this drummer wants to mix genres and it's not working. One of you needs to leave the band.
If it's a country rock gig, it doesn't call for jazz drumming (well, not much). It's the equivalent of the bassist playing slap on country material.
A good jazz drummer should be able to play simple stuff and make it sound incredible. They may not have the heavy bass drum foot like most rock guys, but they can make it work.
If it's a country rock gig, it doesn't call for jazz drumming (well, not much). It's the equivalent of the bassist playing slap on country material.
A good jazz drummer should be able to play simple stuff and make it sound incredible. They may not have the heavy bass drum foot like most rock guys, but they can make it work.
A drummer who wants to play jazz drums in a modern country band shouldn't be playing in a modern country band.
But it is kind of odd that none of the other band members notice a problem... I guess we'd all have to hear his "stupidly complicated fills" to know if he's actually trying to play jazz drums in a country context, but I have a feeling that if he really was, someone apart from you would have noticed the problem. Is he really playing jazz drums? If he was, or if his fills were as stupidly complicated as you say, I feel like someone else would have noticed too. Jazz drums in a country band would be pretty obvious - you wouldn't have to be the bass player to pick up on it. You might just not like his fills, and might prefer a simpler aesthetic. Which is cool, but then it's time to talk with the rest of the band.
Or I could be totally wrong, and the other guys in the band could just be completely oblivious! I'm probably biased because I think jazz is more danceable than country anyway
I've danced at plenty of jazz shows! I'd stick with it a while longer and try to adapt though - even if his playing is over-complicated, playing along with a drumming style you're not used to might make you a better bassist in the long run.
But it is kind of odd that none of the other band members notice a problem... I guess we'd all have to hear his "stupidly complicated fills" to know if he's actually trying to play jazz drums in a country context, but I have a feeling that if he really was, someone apart from you would have noticed the problem. Is he really playing jazz drums? If he was, or if his fills were as stupidly complicated as you say, I feel like someone else would have noticed too. Jazz drums in a country band would be pretty obvious - you wouldn't have to be the bass player to pick up on it. You might just not like his fills, and might prefer a simpler aesthetic. Which is cool, but then it's time to talk with the rest of the band.
Or I could be totally wrong, and the other guys in the band could just be completely oblivious! I'm probably biased because I think jazz is more danceable than country anyway
I've danced at plenty of jazz shows! I'd stick with it a while longer and try to adapt though - even if his playing is over-complicated, playing along with a drumming style you're not used to might make you a better bassist in the long run.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
When is the last time you went to a real jazz concert - real professionals? Let's take your Guns and Roses - REAL humility there with Axl...
Cut the crap. Good music is good music, and good musicians are good musicians, regardless of genre. FWIW, I play primarily rock.
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nice perspective.A drummer who wants to play jazz drums in a modern country band shouldn't be playing in a modern country band.
But it is kind of odd that none of the other band members notice a problem... I guess we'd all have to hear his "stupidly complicated fills" to know if he's actually trying to play jazz drums in a country context, but I have a feeling that if he really was, someone apart from you would have noticed the problem. Is he really playing jazz drums? If he was, or if his fills were as stupidly complicated as you say, I feel like someone else would have noticed too. Jazz drums in a country band would be pretty obvious - you wouldn't have to be the bass player to pick up on it. You might just not like his fills, and might prefer a simpler aesthetic. Which is cool, but then it's time to talk with the rest of the band.
Or I could be totally wrong, and the other guys in the band could just be completely oblivious! I'm probably biased because I think jazz is more danceable than country anyway
Man I feel you. I'm primarily a drummer and stick religiously to the K.I.S.S. method (keep it simple stupid). It doesn't matter how super technical your fills are if you can't keep a steady groove and fit in with the song.
Danny Carey plays with a small jazz band. I don't think it's his main gig.
I don't think he plays his jazz stuff with his main gig.
The Motown guys used to slink off to jazz speakeasies to get their jazz on, but it wasn't their main gig.
Your drummer could learn from this. Have him go play his jazz in restaurants with his jazz band if he must suffer for his art, but bring the kick/snare/kick/kick/snare for you guys.
I don't think he plays his jazz stuff with his main gig.
The Motown guys used to slink off to jazz speakeasies to get their jazz on, but it wasn't their main gig.
Your drummer could learn from this. Have him go play his jazz in restaurants with his jazz band if he must suffer for his art, but bring the kick/snare/kick/kick/snare for you guys.
Well, I’m a firm believer that you need to play the genre in front of you. Also, whether or not he likes it, you are an ensemble. His job of an ensemble player is understanding that the goal of the ensemble supersedes any individual agenda. Sounds like he didn’t get the message.
If your are the BL, can his butt. If not, record the band, and play it for the rest of the band pointing out how it isn’t working. If they don’t get it, move on a save yourself the aggravation.
As for jazz players, there are no more jazz playing snobs, than rock, metal, disco, swing, rap, top 40, (you name the genre) snobs. What has kept me gigging for over 50 years is simple. Play it like you mean it, and play it the way it’s supposed to be played.
I’ve thought about this... and I would be firing myself. I’m the manager... which means that I do the stuff no one else wants to do. I also own the stage gear, so if I fire myself they won’t be doing gigs any time soon. I’ve been considering starting a new project with a female vocalist. But I really like the other two guys. That they aren’t stepping up for me is actually more painful than watching people try to dance to the unicorn beat.
I was so happy when we found him... I was like shoot, if he can play that he can play boom smack... but he won’t. I was going to fire him before we started booking summer gigs but they ( front man and lead guitar ) figured we could work it out... no one really wanted to take the summer off and let some other band take over the fairs and festivals we spent five years getting in on.
You're the band manager, own the P.A., and book the shows?
Start auditioning female singers and drummers, immediately. Tell the other two to hang on for the ride, because things are about to markedly improve. Don't worry about their reluctance to back you about your current drummer. If they want to remain neutral on such an obvious problem, so be it. Trust your instincts.
Why wait? The two most important members of a successful cover band: Drummer, lead singer.
Im not intimidated, I just can’t tap my foot to the way he plays. I can’t see any sign of entrainment in the crowd... no foot tapping, no head bobbing, and we used to pack the dance floor. Our original drummer was a guitarist he wasn’t busy because he couldn’t be and he rocked it with that driving beat.
Because I thought if he could play the way he was that he could play the way we needed. It never occurred that a person would refuse such a thing... especially an experienced musician.
Beyond the drummer and lead singer being arguably the most important aspects of a cover band, especially from an audience perspective, the relationship the band manager develops with those players is absolutely essential to the success of the project. You have to trust their musicianship, and they have to trust your instincts and opinions about how songs are being played.
It's not all that unusual that players come into a project with a slightly different idea of how to do their jobs, but when an issue comes up, the status of the relationship hinges on how they handle suggestions and requests to try a different approach.
Your lead singer has to know that you are targeting a certain market and audience, and therefore song selection is critical. She might not get to sing anything and everything she feels like singing.
Your drummer needs to understand his role and be willing to pick it up or tone it down on request. If his job description is play to the song and keep it simple and dance-able, that's the expectation. He also doesn't get to play anything and everything he feels like playing.
It's not so bad he's a busy drummer; the worst part is you can't convince him it's not working and talk him down and into a style more appropriate and beneficial to the needs of the project. As a band manager myself, working my ass off to win talent buyers and their audiences and keep the bookings coming in, that "I'm smarter than and know better than you" attitude would be a deal breaker, and his replacement would quickly be in the works. I work too hard to have any musician torpedo my band.
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I realize musicians don’t grow on trees, and he is capable of doing what we need, but he’s not because he believes the simple beat is below him... he won’t “dumb it down” just because I ask him to. He is totally playing jazz beats. I had to watch videos to figure what the heck I was supposed to be doing when he was doing it. I’m no victor Wooten, I swear it... but I can groove with a beat, he just won’t give one, and I really don’t like jazz style bass playing. I would rather be a kazooist.A drummer who wants to play jazz drums in a modern country band shouldn't be playing in a modern country band.
But it is kind of odd that none of the other band members notice a problem... I guess we'd all have to hear his "stupidly complicated fills" to know if he's actually trying to play jazz drums in a country context, but I have a feeling that if he really was, someone apart from you would have noticed the problem. Is he really playing jazz drums? If he was, or if his fills were as stupidly complicated as you say, I feel like someone else would have noticed too. Jazz drums in a country band would be pretty obvious - you wouldn't have to be the bass player to pick up on it. You might just not like his fills, and might prefer a simpler aesthetic. Which is cool, but then it's time to talk with the rest of the band.
Or I could be totally wrong, and the other guys in the band could just be completely oblivious! I'm probably biased because I think jazz is more danceable than country anyway
I think Miles Davis said, "It takes a good drummer to be better than no drummer at all."
Fire the drummer.
Fire the drummer.
