I understand. Well , now you know. Step 2 is to correct your error. I've auditioned drummers like that. When I give them a list of songs to learn and they show up not knowing any , bye bye.
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The unicorn
- Thread starter wcnewby
- Start date
I understand. Well , now you know. Step 2 is to correct your error. I've auditioned drummers like that. When I give them a list of songs to learn and they show up not knowing any , bye bye.
the times when ive improved the most is when i had to deal with a drummer who was wayyyy better than me. try to rise to the occasion rather than dragging it down...
I really appreciate the support and advice you people are putting out. It occurred, a moment ago to mention that this is a management problem... which is why it’s in this section. For those of you who are not managers I’ve got to say this. If you are really good with people, work with people. Musicians aren’t people. You don’t tell musicians what to do. You try to get them to want to do what you want. What I really want is to get this guy to apply his obvious skill in a way that is appropriate for this project. If I fire him, I have to find a drummer and then they have to learn some seventy songs... we won’t be making any money or building any following for this period.
We have a product. His playing isn’t it... but you must have some unicorn blood. This is exactly something he would say.
There's too many drummers out there that get off on making people dance for you to to wait , imo.
Good luck working with him. Best case scenario, he is sympathetic to the needs of your project, willing to adjust, and keeps his superiority complex and diploma out of the conversation.
But don't underestimate the drive and desire that a motivated new member can bring to the table. A couple weeks of downtime might be a reasonable trade-off for a drummer who brings it the way you and your audiences want him to. I have been, and I have seen, a musician who gets stage-ready in a very short period of time.
It sounds like your current drummer hasn't learned the songs, though. Is that right ? Playing all over these hit songs certainly isn't learning them. I don't know why you and your fellow members are giving him so much credit for having more experience or thinking that playing a different style of music deserves so much more respect. Yes , jazz is more difficult , technically, but if he cant make people dance , he may not have what you're looking for. It takes feel, stamina (I'm talking about the stamina to keep a steady beat for 50 songs in a night) and discipline that he may not have. I'm sorry , but people not dancing when you're playing country rock hits ? Find a new drummer who actually likes the music and enjoys getting people dancing is my suggestion. The fact that he's oblivious as to how bad he's failing , makes me think that there's something wrong with him.
I 100% love the simplicity of Can't You See. Messing that up is near sacrilege. We had a drummer in the beginning who would feel the need to solo all the way thru Hey Joe. He was good with everything else but he just felt the need to jazz up Hey Joe.
Been in a couple of r&r situations with a jazz drummer that had skills but no r&r feel at all. Didn't work out with them.
The interesting thing about simple pocket drumming is that it isn’t heard very often.
But it’s fantastic when it’s done well with finesse and taste. You can build any band on a foundation like that.
It must be hard to do or more drummers would be doing it.
Everyone wants to be a hero but no one puts in the fundamentals.
But it’s fantastic when it’s done well with finesse and taste. You can build any band on a foundation like that.
It must be hard to do or more drummers would be doing it.
Everyone wants to be a hero but no one puts in the fundamentals.
You're in Wisconsin. There are probably seventy dudes and ten chicks who know your entire repertoire front to back, can play like a perfectly programmed Roland 808, and actually know how to tune their drums... but most of them only want to play once a month. Read some of Pau Ferro's threads and posts. That guy knows what's what and doesn't waste time (AFAIK) trying to be a developer. Hires, fires, and gets jobs done and called back for repeats. Unless you owe someone a favor and have to keep Terry Bozzio around for them, put him on notice.
This band I was in two decades ago had the simplest drummer ever. He didn't even set up changes but man he was right on timing wise! So next I went to a band where the drummer complained that I was setting up changes too much and that I should back off because it was his job. We came to a compromise but this drummer would fade (become sluggish) toward the end of the night. Then back to another simpleton drummer with great timing. I'll take the great timing simpletons any day.
Maybe try practicing with a BeatBuddy without him present, and recording some songs that he is particularly artsy on, then record yourselves playing them using all the features of the BeatBuddy (use both verse and chorus beats and fills throughout as appropriate), then record him playing those same tunes, and let him listen to the difference in the recordings and see which he thinks has a better groove.
Caution: you may end up wanting to replace your drummer with the beatbuddy. It grooves really well, it doesn't get too artsy, and it doesn't consume too much beer either.
Caution: you may end up wanting to replace your drummer with the beatbuddy. It grooves really well, it doesn't get too artsy, and it doesn't consume too much beer either.
A while back I was in an eerily similar situation. A Retro country band with a jazz drummer. He knew it going in and played accordingly in the audition and early practices but as soon as the gigs started, JAZZ!!!!! It literally drove me nuts. The rest of the bad just wanted to play so badly they ignored it and did not back me with the drummer.
I was the band leader and the bookings were mine through years of good relationships with club and festival people. Other than risk my rep I simply quit booking that band.
Sounds like you are in the same spot. Overplaying drummer, no support and your gigs. You have a concern with losing gigs this summer. If I were in your shoes I'd be far more concerned with the long term risk of sounding crappy and losing the good reputation that you must have in order to get those gigs. If you have good gigs you can find a good drummer. Money talks, bullshirt walks. Get rid of your source of irritation and can the jazzman. You are in the drivers seat.
Good luck!
I was the band leader and the bookings were mine through years of good relationships with club and festival people. Other than risk my rep I simply quit booking that band.
Sounds like you are in the same spot. Overplaying drummer, no support and your gigs. You have a concern with losing gigs this summer. If I were in your shoes I'd be far more concerned with the long term risk of sounding crappy and losing the good reputation that you must have in order to get those gigs. If you have good gigs you can find a good drummer. Money talks, bullshirt walks. Get rid of your source of irritation and can the jazzman. You are in the drivers seat.
Good luck!
Any live recordings of the band with this drummer?
I’ve been a band leader for many years...greatest lesson I ever learned is that you can’t change a players feel...you have to find what you are looking for in the first place. You can’t change or mold cats. The longer they have been playing the more this is true.
Nor will it hit on your girlfriend, according to the manual. However, it does come with a Sobriety setting, with four options ranging from sober to wasted
What that drummer's doing to the groove sounds like what some DJs do, by spending all their time playing intros and never letting a groove dominate - it's a great way of clearing the dance-floor. I nickname them DJ Decktease.
Maybe point out to him that Charlie Watts is a jazz drummer, too, then make him listen to Honky Tonk Women?
I am in total agreement.... I was only fooled for long enough to book gigs. After listening to the advice and comments here I figure I’m going to stop booking gigs until he is reformed or replaced.
I have a zoom H6 arriving today. There will be recordings soon.
If he's that new to the band and already giving you orders, then he's got issues which will get worse fast and he needs to go. If the rest of the band isn't supporting you and are ready to follow him down the dead end, then you need to get out of there.
I say you dress up like a gladiator, run around the crowd yelling "are you not entertained!", and get them riled up. They'll demand that he pick up the pace with some dance grooves, or feed him to the lions.
I say you dress up like a gladiator, run around the crowd yelling "are you not entertained!", and get them riled up. They'll demand that he pick up the pace with some dance grooves, or feed him to the lions.
