Theory question regarding torn and frayed stones

[drewphishesp]

So it's A G d for the most part. But every now and then there's an E in there. Is it in D? Or would u call it more like D mixo and say it's G or it's just D and flatted because rock and roll!

 

[DeepThoughts]

I would say this song is in D.
The A is an A7 ( the V) before it goes back to D ( the l ) for the chorus... A good clue about the tonality
V lV l ll
A G D E

 

[drewphishesp]

Isn't the e supposed to be minor tho in d?

 

[DeepThoughts]

Yes it should. I agree that is confusing but it doesn't mean the root motion isn't defining the the function as I laid out. THIS is where "because rock n roll" comes into play.

 

[Nashrakh]

Without knowing the song, You could interpret the E as a "V of V" chord, which means the chord is changed from minor to major to have two dominants chain into each other (E - A - D). Very common in jazz.

 

[mambo4]

Isn't the e supposed to be minor tho in d?

Yes, in the key of D major the "natural" form of the E chord is indeed E minor
But being in a key does not necessarily enslave us to the exact chords.
So, how do we know what key we're in if the harmony is fungible?
as @DeepThoughts points out, the thing that nails the song to the key of D is the A7 - Dmaj (V-I ) sequence.
If you want to find the key center when strange chords are present, look for the V-I

Most Rock and Roll (and any blues descendants) tunes will have the "wrong" flavor of chords in ii, ii, vi positions.
minors usually become major or dominant 7th chords.

You could interpret the E as a "V of V" chord

The term for this is "secondary dominant". Each of the ii iii IV V vi chords in the key has a secondary dominant chord that is the Dom 7th chord a fifth above it, which will look like the "wrong" flavor of the natural chord.

the ii chord's secondary dominant is VI7 (instead of vi min)
the iii chord's secondary dominant is VII7 (instead of vii m7b5)
the IV chord's secondary dominant is I7 (instead of Imaj7)
the V chord's secondary dominant is II7 (instead of ii min)
the vi chord's secondary dominant is III7 (instead of iii min)

Anthony, whatcha got?

 

[dreamadream99]

So it's A G D for the most part. But every now and then there's an E in there. Is it in D?

This is impossible to answer given just this information.

• It could be D, with a major II chord (E)
• It could be A, with a flat VII (G natural)
• It could be G, with a major II (A) and a major VI (E)
• It could be E, with a flat VII (D natural) and a flat III (G natural)

Heck, for that matter, you could even claim it’s in the key of C, with a major II, major III, and major VI...

You gotta remember that music theory doesn’t dictate how music gets written—it’s a way of explaining how music was written. So what key is it in? Only the writer knows for sure. All we can tell from here, is that it’s got major G, A, D, and E chords in it. Those four chords aren’t native to any single key signature, so take your pick from above which key it’s notated in. Either way, it’s got at least one accidental (a sharp, flat, or natural note that is not within the key signature). As a transcriber, I’d probably just pick the key signature which yielded the fewest written accidentals (Either D with the occasional G#, or A with the occasional G natural).