There must be a cheaper way to save my ears

[NoxNoctus]

Before you spend money on customs, you owe it to yourself to try a decent pair of universal in-ear monitors with some good isolating foam tips. If you do decide to go custom, there are several companies that can set you up for under $400. As you've seen, there are plenty of companies who charge much more if you have disposable income.

These things are amazing. I have the Sennheiser EW300 and the buds that come with it (retailing ~$100) aren't really anything special on their own, but with the Comply tips....it's really quite good considering it's a single-driver bud. I'm about to throw down on some A4's but I'm not hurting right now, I can hear everything I need to once everything else is blocked out.

 

[s0c9]

Another vote for the UM Pro30s. I have a set as spares. I bought them after I had to use a set at church when I broke the cable on my 1964 Quads.

Yeah, the UMs will run around $350, but they are the minimum I'll recommend for generic IEMs.

There's a town full of musicians that hate IEMs, because they spent $200 or even less on some cheap IEMs and they had bad experiences with them. I've lent my UM Pro 30s out to players who were amazed at how much better the Westones sounded than what they were used to.

Of course, the mixer set-up plays a big part is how well, the IEMs will work out.

This !! Same problems I've seen locally too.. musicians trashing IEM's because they bought a cheap system with single driver buds then blame the IEM's. If I had a dime for every one of those.....<sigh>
I've been trying to help folks going to IEM's for a few yrs now..
Basically - GET THE BEST MULTI-DRIVER BUDS you can afford !!
Note that I did not say custom molds... I suggest you TRY universals and see if they work for you.. they don't work for everyone due to bad seal or small ear canals. Custom molds will up the price by $200+ over universals and most customs are not cheap due to demand.
If you play bass, you should aim for a minimum of 3 drivers per ear - so you can boost the bass above the other frequencies. Single drivers will turn that to mud.
I also recommend stereo mixes (tho' mono mixes can work for many) so look at your consoles capabilities and factor that in too.

Beyond that, going wired or wireless is up to personal preference.
If wireless, get a decent system such as the PSM300 or Senn G3 - tho' others can and will work fine. Most systems support multiple channels and have built in limiters (a must have in any system)!!

It amazes me that folks who happily spend $2K and up on their bass and even more on their rigs, will carry that bass in a gig bag and want to monitor their PA thru cheap $100 buds!!

 

[TedH]

Hearing aids are $4k. Just sayin'.

 

[eKay]

Hearing aids are $4k. Just sayin'.

Yeah, and keeping my hearing without tinnitus? Priceless.

Last resort, I'll get custom fit earplugs, or make some with that Radian stuff or whatever it's called.

 

[eKay]

This !! Same problems I've seen locally too.. musicians trashing IEM's because they bought a cheap system with single driver buds then blame the IEM's. If I had a dime for every one of those.....<sigh>
I've been trying to help folks going to IEM's for a few yrs now..
Basically - GET THE BEST MULTI-DRIVER BUDS you can afford !!
Note that I did not say custom molds... I suggest you TRY universals and see if they work for you.. they don't work for everyone due to bad seal or small ear canals. Custom molds will up the price by $200+ over universals and most customs are not cheap due to demand.
If you play bass, you should aim for a minimum of 3 drivers per ear - so you can boost the bass above the other frequencies. Single drivers will turn that to mud.
I also recommend stereo mixes (tho' mono mixes can work for many) so look at your consoles capabilities and factor that in too.

Beyond that, going wired or wireless is up to personal preference.
If wireless, get a decent system such as the PSM300 or Senn G3 - tho' others can and will work fine. Most systems support multiple channels and have built in limiters (a must have in any system)!!

It amazes me that folks who happily spend $2K and up on their bass and even more on their rigs, will carry that bass in a gig bag and want to monitor their PA thru cheap $100 buds!!

That's a good point about people eschewing IEMs because they got crappy ones. I'd like to think I'm a bit more scientific and patient (though still want to go as cheap as possible). I'm already sold on IEMs, whether I get them now or later.

So y'all have me thinking, maybe $200-$300 for universals, preferably with Comply (or similar) foam tips. Multi drivers being almost a must.

I think I do have small ear canals though. With the Sony earbuds I got for my phone I had to use the smallest tips, and some earplugs I got won't fit. So now that's a concern.

 

[s0c9]

I think I do have small ear canals though. With the Sony earbuds I got for my phone I had to use the smallest tips, and some earplugs I got won't fit. So now that's a concern.

That's been my issue also.. never been able to get a seal with the smallest tips - no matter the vendor. My audiologist advise moving to customs some yrs ago.
I have to admit that my use of 1964 Qi's and now A8's has been absolutely STELLAR in terms of both gigs and pleasure listening... but they are NOT cheap.

Over the yrs, I've used Carvin (EM900), Shure (PSM200) and Westone UM1's that are all single drivers. I also have the Senn I4(?) buds that came with the system but have never opened the package they are in. I've also used Westone UM20 buds (dual driver). ALL of that list have been used in various combinations with wired Aviom/Behringer P16 systems and various wireless systems. I'm no expert, but have been on that "journey". Been using 1964 customs for the last 3 yrs. Given my small canals, I'll take the 1964 Qi's over any of those, and the A8's I've been using for about 3 months are in a league of their own (IMHO).

My current STEREO IEM rig is the Senn G3 wireless + 1964 A8's - which I am VERY, VERY HAPPY with.
We gig frequently so our wireless units sit in the same rack as the digital console (X32 Producer) and we either send feeds to, or split off stage snakes, the 85% of venues we play that have house systems.
We use our mics/DI's/cables at all of them, so it's power up and go no matter the venue. My IEM mix is controlled via my Android tablet that sits on top of my amp. Minor changes at each gig. Takes < 30 secs to adjust my mix.

Yes, there's an expense involved with this approach - but we haven't carried wedges or amp racks (have our own powered EV PA when needed) or the associated cables in at least 18 months.
I'm sharing this to show that there are ways to make this all work - without massive expenditures.

 

[Bassamatic]

Remember to use a really good brick wall limiter with your IEMs. The energy is connected nearly directly to your eardrums, and an errant peak can cause a lot more damage than you are trying to avoid. You must have an absolute ceiling below damage threshold with instant attack time. It doesn't matter what it sounds like - it is for protection only .

 

[F-Clef-Jef]

I've been ampless and in-ear for about 7 years now, somehow I've managed to survive without spending huge dollars on multi-driver in-ears. I used FutureSonic Atrios for about 5 of those years (discontinued - cables finally gave out) and lately have been using MeeAudio Pinnacle ($200 - really well made, with zinc alloy housings and interchangeable, replaceable cables.). Very happy with the Pinnacles, never ever have had any problem hearing my bass, in fact I usually need to back the bass off a little or it can be overpowering. These are single, moving coil transducer buds. They sound beautiful. It seems that if you go with balanced-armature type drivers, the more drivers the better, from what I've been reading/observing. Of course the price tag goes up as well.
There are four of us in the group, all hard-wired, we use a Rane 6 channel studio headphone amp and a Behringer X-32 mixer.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Consider this. Hearing aids start at about $3,000 each.

 

[eKay]

Remember to use a really good brick wall limiter with your IEMs. The energy is connected nearly directly to your eardrums, and an errant peak can cause a lot more damage than you are trying to avoid. You must have an absolute ceiling below damage threshold with instant attack time. It doesn't matter what it sounds like - it is for protection only .

Absolutely. Since I'm in charge of PA stuff, I won't let anyone in the band (including myself) go IEM without a limiter. Still haven't made up my mind about the details there either.

 

[s0c9]

Absolutely. Since I'm in charge of PA stuff, I won't let anyone in the band (including myself) go IEM without a limiter. Still haven't made up my mind about the details there either.

Most wireless systems have those built-in... the higher end ones have adjustable limiters.
If you are wired, then a brick-wall limiter needs to be placed in-line before the IEM's... 'cus some idiot is GOING to DROP THAT MIC !!

 

[s0c9]

I've been ampless and in-ear for about 7 years now, somehow I've managed to survive without spending huge dollars on multi-driver in-ears. I used FutureSonic Atrios for about 5 of those years (discontinued - cables finally gave out) and lately have been using MeeAudio Pinnacle ($200 - really well made, with zinc alloy housings and interchangeable, replaceable cables.). Very happy with the Pinnacles, never ever have had any problem hearing my bass, in fact I usually need to back the bass off a little or it can be overpowering. These are single, moving coil transducer buds. They sound beautiful. It seems that if you go with balanced-armature type drivers, the more drivers the better, from what I've been reading/observing. Of course the price tag goes up as well.
There are four of us in the group, all hard-wired, we use a Rane 6 channel studio headphone amp and a Behringer X-32 mixer.

I will NEVER argue that one cannot "survive" without multiple-driver buds.. custom or universal.
It's what works for you..
The BA drivers tend to go into multi-driver IEM's as they are smaller than the MC transducers and they can put more into the same space. I'm not sure I've heard of multi-driver IEM's (not headphones) that were moving coil... ?

 

[eKay]

Consider this. Hearing aids start at about $3,000 each.

Maybe so, but I'm not arguing against hearing protection. I'm arguing against having to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on it. Not that you shouldn't, just that I shouldn't have to.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Maybe so, but I'm not arguing against hearing protection. I'm arguing against having to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on it. Not that you shouldn't, just that I shouldn't have to.

My point is it is worth getting the best you can afford. But, I do agree it is more expensive that you think it should be. I feel the same way about hearing aids. There is a lot more technology in my phone than in my hearing aids, but the hearing aids cost 10 times as much as the hearing aids.

 

[ZonBass18]

Remember to use a really good brick wall limiter with your IEMs. The energy is connected nearly directly to your eardrums, and an errant peak can cause a lot more damage than you are trying to avoid. You must have an absolute ceiling below damage threshold with instant attack time. It doesn't matter what it sounds like - it is for protection only .

Can you recommend a good Brick wall limiter?

 

[s0c9]

Can you recommend a good Brick wall limiter?

I stated above that most wireless IEM systems have them built in.. if you a looking to go wired.. pretty much any compressor unit with brick-wall limiting capability will do the job.. again.. it's about budget.. you can get an Alto to TC/dbx/rane to Empirical labs to.. $$$$
Do you want brick-wall only or transparent compression, or both?

The point in all my posts on IEM's - wired or wireless - is that you tend to get what you pay for.. GOOD IEM systems are NOT cheap (I have about $2500 invested in mine - but I gig regularly). I DO get that budget is a MAJOR factor if you gig 6 times a year or even once-a-month or infrequently. But I'm continually surprised by folks who'll spend THOUSANDS on their rigs (for those same gigs), but want to cheap out on $100 IEM systems..
Most wouldn't want their sound going thru cheap PA speakers, why expect miracles from a $9 set of generic buds in your ears???

 

[ZonBass18]

I stated above that most wireless IEM systems have them built in.. if you a looking to go wired.. pretty much any compressor unit with brick-wall limiting capability will do the job.. again.. it's about budget.. you can get an Alto to TC/dbx/rane to Empirical labs to.. $$$$
Do you want brick-wall only or transparent compression, or both?

The point in all my posts on IEM's - wired or wireless - is that you tend to get what you pay for.. GOOD IEM systems are NOT cheap (I have about $2500 invested in mine - but I gig regularly). I DO get that budget is a MAJOR factor if you gig 6 times a year or even once-a-month or infrequently. But I'm continually surprised by folks who'll spend THOUSANDS on their rigs (for those same gigs), but want to cheap out on $100 IEM systems..
Most wouldn't want their sound going thru cheap PA speakers, why expect miracles from a $9 set of generic buds in your ears???

I gig almost every weekend, had the tasty Blender and it died (no response from mfg yet) / still going wired. I'm using 1964 Quads with a Rolls x-over so sound quality is not an issue - I want to use a small 5 channel board now, I have never heard of a "brick wall limiter" Just something to protect hearing

 

[eKay]

We're still talking in ears but not ready to pull the trigger. I'm looking at trying some universals in the $200-$300 range, and may try DIY molds if that doesn't work. Then, next step after that is have them done by a pro. All on the same buds. But, just can't swing it right now. In the meantime I'm relying on some "hi-fi" Hear-O's with the triple flanges for protection.

It occurred to me at my last gig that what I was missing was the pitch of the notes. I could hear and feel the bass but it was very difficult to tell if I was playing the right note. I could have been one fret off and not noticed. So I had some thoughts...

1. Fix my monitor mix. I set it up in a hurry and I think I had it hooked up "wrong" and wasn't getting the volume I needed.
2. EQ the monitor mix to bring out... whatever frequencies I need to hear the pitch clearly. I have an old Boss EQ pedal I don't otherwise use that I can try in line with the monitor only (seems to sound fine out front so no need to EQ that).
3. Get the guitar player to turn down... whatever frequencies that are mushing up the bass. He's using a Line6 amp that is pretty hifi and sounds fantastic, but we've never tried tuning it up in context. This may be surprising but I don't think the guitar is too loud.
4. Get a tilt-back amp stand.
5. Stack a 1x12 or 2x10 on top.

The venue I've been playing most is a small room with a low (8') ceiling, and no room for me to move around, hence I'm 2' or so away from my rig. At larger shows when I can be 7-8' or more out front, I'm fine.

I've heard some promising things about stacking a GK Neo 1x12 on a Neo 2x12 (what I use currently). Not worried about blowing it because I'd run it off a different channel on my power amp.

I said "whatever frequencies" not because I have no idea what frequencies are generated by the bass notes, but because I'm not certain which range is most useful for hearing the pitch. It might be the fundamental, but there are harmonics to consider that I'm sure are helpful too. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[s0c9]

I have never heard of a "brick wall limiter" Just something to protect hearing

Basically:
"It's more or less what it sounds like - Throwing a virtual brick wall in front of the signal. "Controlled clipping" would be a nice way to put it. You set the signal at a certain threshold and "none shall pass" after that."
Designed to protect your hearing.. I recommend you have one in line.. many digital consoles have them (compressors) built into the output buss effects matric.. so if you have one of those, check before you buy an outboard unit.

 

[morgansterne]

Since you mentioned you play sax, I'll chime in with this. In one band I do bass, in another I do keys, rhythm guitar, and trumpet. I'm ok using my Carvin IEM system with the "unusable" stock earbuds for everything, including lots of harmony vocals -- except trumpet. There is simply no way I can play trumpet accurately with in ear monitors. I have to take them out when I'm playing trumpet or I just start hitting the wrong notes.

So that's my caveat: any system you try out that works for everything else may not work for horn playing!