And just a shout out to the ingenuity that seems to have resolved this one. Excellent clamping solution! 
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There's another storm brewing!
- Thread starter pilotjones
- Start date
Thanks. If I had to do it over again (please no!), I'd find a way to be sure the blocks couldn't spooj out the sides anywhere. I knew I was taking a chance in relying on the adhesive. I also knew that I needed that center relief and the fret relief, and that milling or grinding rubber can be a major league pain in the ass.And just a shout out to the ingenuity that seems to have resolved this one. Excellent clamping solution!
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Shaping the bridge blocks
Next up, and bringing the story up to where I am now, is shaping the bridge blocks. They had been simple rectangles cut from the scrap from the fretboard. That won't do, of course.
So they receive two contour edges that run across the five blocks to harmonize with the wells they sit in, as well as front and rear bevels. Also, roundovers at their front and rear corners, and side/top edges. And let me tell you, particularly with respect to trying to make consistent, smooth, small roundovers on a part of this small scale, wenge is NOT your friend. It is like alternating layers of steel and styrofoam. Depending on the grain orientation, the moment a part of a hard layer disappears you will instantly do far too much removal unless you are super careful.
They are looking pretty good, but I can see in the top view that the tail of the B block needs more work. Maybe a bit on both ends of the D block, too. And of course, if new strings don't intonate the same as the test strings, the overall curve is shot anyway and no one will know the difference.
Next up, and bringing the story up to where I am now, is shaping the bridge blocks. They had been simple rectangles cut from the scrap from the fretboard. That won't do, of course.
So they receive two contour edges that run across the five blocks to harmonize with the wells they sit in, as well as front and rear bevels. Also, roundovers at their front and rear corners, and side/top edges. And let me tell you, particularly with respect to trying to make consistent, smooth, small roundovers on a part of this small scale, wenge is NOT your friend. It is like alternating layers of steel and styrofoam. Depending on the grain orientation, the moment a part of a hard layer disappears you will instantly do far too much removal unless you are super careful.
They are looking pretty good, but I can see in the top view that the tail of the B block needs more work. Maybe a bit on both ends of the D block, too. And of course, if new strings don't intonate the same as the test strings, the overall curve is shot anyway and no one will know the difference.
Attachments
I have a bass with a similar design but the saddles are slipping while tuning or detuning the bass.
And it has screw to set the saddle in place but still it is slipping.
My saddles are not exactly like that when i think of it because the Height screws are pushing away the saddle from the bridge to adjust the string height.
Do you have enough friction with the wood to keep them from moving while adjusting the bass?
If yes, i'll maybe try your design with my routed bridge.
Side bar: that's strange, there are many bridges out there with friction fit designs that work just fine. The tension of the string pushes down against the bridge, not along the length of string. Even highly polished, it should not slip ahead or back under tension. Maybe explore that with the Hardware, Setup and Repair forum. Something's up.
I agree completely. With the string angles normally used for these, there should be no problem whatsoever.Side bar: that's strange, there are many bridges out there with friction fit designs that work just fine. The tension of the string pushes down against the bridge, not along the length of string. Even highly polished, it should not slip ahead or back under tension. Maybe explore that with the Hardware, Setup and Repair forum. Something's up.
As my previous sentence implies, the only way I see a slippage problem when tuning is if the string comes off the back of the saddle at an extreme angle, as in the geometry used in thru-body stringing. If that's the case, the mechanical holdback screw that is there in an ordinary bridge is the requirement that is missing.
Side bar: that's strange, there are many bridges out there with friction fit designs that work just fine. The tension of the string pushes down against the bridge, not along the length of string. Even highly polished, it should not slip ahead or back under tension. Maybe explore that with the Hardware, Setup and Repair forum. Something's up.
That is my bass, as you see Saddles are almost pushed down and pushed towards the pickups because of the strings going thru the body.
Maybe with a flat saddle with height screws like your design, it will not slip away.
You do have quite a deep angle of the strings coming off the back of the saddle to the anchorage. Especially on the E string saddle, which looks like it has been pushed forwards.
Assuming you cand do anything to change the acual string anchorage points, there maybe something else you can do. You can add a new element to the bridge between the saddles and the anchor points, making a new, second break point on each string. Its height would be such that the sharp break takes place at the new element, and only a shallow break takes place at the bridge saddle.
The element could be made of anything. One option would be to rout a channel side-to-side clear across the width of the bridge, forward of the anchor points but behind the saddle slots. Then drop in a round steel bar. You could either make the slot too hallow to start and gradually deepen it, or could make it faitly deep to start and then shim the bar upwards until the saddles no longer move.
Other ways would be to put an individual element of some sort in each slot.
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Your idea is really good! I did not think of that.
The Luthier has this problem on every bass with this design. And he tried to correct it by making the saddle channel deeper (by routing the wood under the saddle) and lessen the string attack angel.
I played with the bass since he did that but i am very disapointed by his work knowing that it is not the only flaw.
I'll maybe try first to set a bar without routing anything and try to tune/detune the bass, i'll see it works.
The other solution i suggested the Luthier is to insert a metal bar on the side on the channel to had a stiffer material which will grip more onto the saddle locking screw.
Thank you for your answer and let's continue with your awesome build, it's a stunning bass!
I see you have metal saddles in a wood base? Maybe a layer of 240 to 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper (maybe more coarse if needed) crazy glued to the bottom of each saddle will give enough grip? The thin sandpaper should not affect tone given the wood base.
Thanks.
Another solution to your problem is to make a blocking element to go between the front of the saddle and the front wall of the saddle slot — inserted into the space that keeps closing up. You could buy a small dowel (or ice cream stick) and cut it into a bunch of varying short lengths, and swap them out until you have the saddle in its position for proper intonation. Then, take the dowel out, make it black with paint or marker, and put it back in.
The more coarse the better
. Just thinking of thin paper and I find the wet/dry versions seem thinner. Not sure how coarse a grit they come in.
Great to see this thread back. PJ you're are unstoppable!
About the slipping saddles: I think you are correct in saying that the string break angle might be the reason for the saddles to move forward. That obviously cannot be fixed without a major modification. Moving the ball end anchor point to the front of the bass and a bit further away from the saddle would fix that. But that's a lot of work. I thought those saddle would sport a locking screw? I use a similar design with a set screw on the bass side that does just that.
But that might still not solve the issue as the string would probably pull enough to eventually strip the wood. Have you considered drilling recesses under the saddle, say 1.5/2mm deep, to hold the three adjustment screws in place? This would require fixing your intonation point for each saddle and sticking to the same string gauge. You might also need longer set screws to compensate for the small section that goes into the wood. But it might work. Just my 2c in a hurry. Cheers.
About the slipping saddles: I think you are correct in saying that the string break angle might be the reason for the saddles to move forward. That obviously cannot be fixed without a major modification. Moving the ball end anchor point to the front of the bass and a bit further away from the saddle would fix that. But that's a lot of work. I thought those saddle would sport a locking screw? I use a similar design with a set screw on the bass side that does just that.
But that might still not solve the issue as the string would probably pull enough to eventually strip the wood. Have you considered drilling recesses under the saddle, say 1.5/2mm deep, to hold the three adjustment screws in place? This would require fixing your intonation point for each saddle and sticking to the same string gauge. You might also need longer set screws to compensate for the small section that goes into the wood. But it might work. Just my 2c in a hurry. Cheers.
Since i do not want to bother the OP with my digression here, i'll post a new thread on my subject.
Thank you all for your income, i appreciate it!
And i'm looking forward to the rest of this awesome build.
Thank you all for your income, i appreciate it!
And i'm looking forward to the rest of this awesome build.
Sandberg bridges address this issue by having a side nub that presses into a slot on a channel on one side. The set screw presses down at the bottom of the channel and pushes the nub against the top of the channel on the side. This holds the whole thing in place.
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Slap recess
I've been doing a little slapping on my first bass. To do it I had to reshape the point at the bottom of the fretboard to have less material, and allow my pulling finger more space below the strings between the end of the fretboard and the front pickup. With this second bass having a fully continuous fretboard from stem to stern, slapping would be impossible. So I scooped out a recess in the appropriate place. i feels fairly comfortable now, for a 24-fret multiscale bass.
I've got to say, carving inside concave surfaces in wenge is a bitch. I had forgotten what it was like on the headstock, and at least there none of the surfaces were along the grain, they were only cutting across it.
Headstock logo
I was originally going to fit a small logo on the floor of the slap recess. That's part of the reason for its shape. But I think I'll go with one of these two versions on the headstock. These are just screenshots from the mockup on my computer.
Maybe the logo should be a little smaller.
I am looking to have rub-ons made by Scary Creative. Does anyone have experience with them, or recommended alternatives?
Slap recess
I've been doing a little slapping on my first bass. To do it I had to reshape the point at the bottom of the fretboard to have less material, and allow my pulling finger more space below the strings between the end of the fretboard and the front pickup. With this second bass having a fully continuous fretboard from stem to stern, slapping would be impossible. So I scooped out a recess in the appropriate place. i feels fairly comfortable now, for a 24-fret multiscale bass.
I've got to say, carving inside concave surfaces in wenge is a bitch. I had forgotten what it was like on the headstock, and at least there none of the surfaces were along the grain, they were only cutting across it.
Headstock logo
I was originally going to fit a small logo on the floor of the slap recess. That's part of the reason for its shape. But I think I'll go with one of these two versions on the headstock. These are just screenshots from the mockup on my computer.
Maybe the logo should be a little smaller.
I am looking to have rub-ons made by Scary Creative. Does anyone have experience with them, or recommended alternatives?
