They Say Crime Is On The Decrease....

[monkeyfinger]

The reality is that when attacked, you will defend yourself by whatever ever means is at your disposal. That is a fact. Since I am a man who does not engage in aggressive acts on a regular basis, chances are that I will be easily overcome if I depend solely on my hand-to-hand combat skills.

 

[One Drop]

You are getting into politics. I wont go there.

Okay, ignore the comments about the security state. We can talk about policing methods, as we are discussing incarceration rates?

 

[monkeyfinger]

i would like to know the percentage of guns purchased for home protection that have actually been used for home protection. I would venture to guess its less than .001 %

Actually the CDC just published a report on how many times guns have been used by citizens to stop crime. In most cases the criminal just ran away. The number was not very high, but not insignificant. I won't try to quote here because I am likely to be incorrect, or we start getting into the argument about how accurate or credible the report is. Anyway, it is probably on the same order of magnitude as insurance claims for house fires.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Okay, ignore the comments about the security state. We can talk about policing methods, as we are discussing incarceration rates?

Okay then. I can't disagree with your observations. Things like that do happen, but I don't see it as the norm. I don't know you or how you dress or present yourself or where you go, but usually, those incidents involve those who look like they could be suspicious.
And can I tell you about my encounters with your famous Mounties? They were much less than pleasant.
Police are trained to a certain agressive level. It is a method to control a situation or a person.
They don't always do it right, but remember, they are people too with the same faults as all of us.
Lately the police have become the criminals and the criminals are victims. It is getting weirder than it has ever been in my lifetime.

 

[Johnny Crab]

(1) Why are more people being incarcerated than ever in the U.S.?
(2) Why have more prisons been built?
(3) Why do more police than ever respond to a single call?
(4) Why do police need more and more highpowered weapons and hi-tech equipment?
(5) Why are laws constantly being put on the table to give the authorities increasing carte-blanche to do what they do, putting aside previous civilian "rights"?

1) More criminals, fewer parents doing their duty as such.
2) Follow the money.
3) Fear and love of adrenaline. I have a son who is a LEO.
4) It is not need so much as want. They are also being used as pawns in some areas(refer to # 3).
5) It is the course of all nations with power at the helm put in place by $$$. Google "3 felonies per day". For further study, read the book "In The Garden of Beasts" by Erik Larson.

The "growth" of crime is also enhanced by mass importation/allowing of persons into the USA who have no thought of "assimilating".

 

[monkeyfinger]

I think that in the US there is a misguided attempt to give more and more power to police in an attempt to stave off perceived increases in violent criminal activity. We put cameras everywhere, more cops on the street, more heavily armed cops, more legal ways for cops to legally detain, arrest, search or assault someone. This comes at a great cost to our personal freedom. We want to make the police into body guards. They are not body guards. Their job is to ensure a peaceable society and to investigate any infractions of that peace. Ultimately, our personal safety is our own responsibility.

 

[fretter]

...

2) It costs money to keep people in prison. People aren't in prison because they produce cash, they're in prison because they're criminals.

...

The economic output of prison labor is $2 billion, according to one figure I've seen. They don't pay minimum wage.

As a geologist, I think the evidence for climate change is strong. However, I don't think anyone knows the comparative cause between human activities and natural processes. I do think it would be naive to expect that burning all the wood and fossil fuels we have since cave-man days would not have some impact on the world's climate. If this is predominantly natural warming in the midst of an interglacial period, as has happened hundreds of time before the advent of humans, then there ain't a danged thing we can do about it and our time would be best spent planning on how to deal with rising sea level. If it is primarily human caused, we still may be in the same boat - we may have passed the tipping point. From my perspective, it's a good time to be old.

The problem is apparently that since the Industrial Revolution, global warming and climate change have sped up significantly from where they would be during an interglacial warming period. I tend to agree with you but that's what the data shows, a much steeper curve in the last 200 years.

It works in Britain.





+1. I strongly suspect that if you gave free guns to everyone in the US, the number of gun deaths would rise, sharply. There would be a huge increase in the number of accidental gun deaths, because the people who don't currently own guns are the ones who obviously weren't that fussed about having them in the first place, therefore are less likely to learn how to use it properly, and less likely to take steps to prevent accidents from happening. The other thing is that if someone threatens you with a gun, you are much less likely to get shot if you don't give them a reason to shoot you. If someone breaks into your house, the likelihood is that that person just wants to steal something. The chances of them being a mass murderer who just wants to kill you is very slim. If you just let that person take what they want, they are less likely to shoot you than if you try and resist. If you give everyone guns, the people who never botherered to learn how to use it because they didn't really want one in the first place will all get killed by the criminals, who have taken the time to effectively use their weapon.



If you read the list, you might also notice that the vast majority of countries in that list are markedly less developed than the US.

I'm assuming that in the U.S., 100% of capital offenses are reported. Can that be said about all of the other countries near the bottom of the list?

 

[monkeyfinger]

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

[GregC]

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

If Twain were alive today, I think he'd add "And sketchy, meaningless anecdotes, the true currency of the Internet."

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Crime has decreased. Everything has already been stolen.

 

[loveandbass]

The "growth" of crime is also enhanced by mass importation/allowing of persons into the USA who have no thought of "assimilating".

no

 

[slobake]

The "growth" of crime is also enhanced by mass importation/allowing of persons into the USA who have no thought of "assimilating".

You may be right that crime growth may be enhanced by this but I doubt it is a major contributor. I am aware that you did not say it was a major contributor but then something like the weather may also contribute to the rise in crime but is it significant enough to be a concern? Do have any specific information you can share with us?

 

[One Drop]

Okay then. I can't disagree with your observations. Things like that do happen, but I don't see it as the norm. I don't know you or how you dress or present yourself or where you go, but usually, those incidents involve those who look like they could be suspicious.
And can I tell you about my encounters with your famous Mounties? They were much less than pleasant.
Police are trained to a certain agressive level. It is a method to control a situation or a person.
They don't always do it right, but remember, they are people too with the same faults as all of us.
Lately the police have become the criminals and the criminals are victims. It is getting weirder than it has ever been in my lifetime.

The problem of police overstepping their bounds, of corruption, and bad apples is everywhere, no argument from me. It's how the cases that come to light are treated and their frequency is the issue.

The only way I have looked suspicious driving through your country is having out of state plates or not looking 'local'.

Of course police have the same faults as us. They like members of other professions have certain responsibilities and training to reduce these faults' negative impact on the way they do their jobs.

 

[Tbone76]

The problem of police overstepping their bounds, of corruption, and bad apples is everywhere, no argument from me. It's how the cases that come to light are treated and their frequency is the issue.

The only way I have looked suspicious driving through your country is having out of state plates or not looking 'local'.

Of course police have the same faults as us. They like members of other professions have certain responsibilities and training to reduce these faults' negative impact on the way they do their jobs.

On your first point, the media often leaves out important bits of information or blatantly misrepresents a lot of the actual details of police cases, so the general public only has the knowledge that is given to them. The courts have far more information, which is shared with the jury during the various processes, so a full picture is formed. The reason some of these cases even become news is because it can be spun to fit a specific agenda. The other reason is that they are uncommon, in actuality. There's roughly 1 million le officers in this country, with literally 10's of millions of interactions with the public annually. Most all of us in the profession come to work, do our jobs to the best of our abilities, and try to make a difference. The media pounces on the few that will increase their ratings. I'm also in favor of in-car cameras (they've helped my cases many times), and don't care if my Department eventually transitions over to body cameras. I have nothing to hide while doing my job. Oddly enough, there's a big lobby forming against body cameras because of perceived privacy issues if used in peoples homes.

As to your second point, if you commit a traffic violation in front of me, it doesn't matter at all where you're from. Most times, out-of-staters just get a warning from me instead of a summons. I can't speak to your experience, however.

 

[One Drop]

On your first point, the media often leaves out important bits of information or blatantly misrepresents a lot of the actual details of police cases, so the general public only has the knowledge that is given to them. The courts have far more information, which is shared with the jury during the various processes, so a full picture is formed. The reason some of these cases even become news is because it can be spun to fit a specific agenda. The other reason is that they are uncommon, in actuality. There's roughly 1 million le officers in this country, with literally 10's of millions of interactions with the public annually. Most all of us in the profession come to work, do our jobs to the best of our abilities, and try to make a difference. The media pounces on the few that will increase their ratings. I'm also in favor of in-car cameras (they've helped my cases many times), and don't care if my Department eventually transitions over to body cameras. I have nothing to hide while doing my job. Oddly enough, there's a big lobby forming against body cameras because of perceived privacy issues if used in peoples homes.

As to your second point, if you commit a traffic violation in front of me, it doesn't matter at all where you're from. Most times, out-of-staters just get a warning from me instead of a summons. I can't speak to your experience, however.

Thanks for the perspective.

 

[fdeck]

The courts have far more information, which is shared with the jury during the various processes, so a full picture is formed.

What percentage of cases go to trial?

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Just to throw an obvious possibility out there - isn't it possible that crime rates are down BECAUSE incarceration rates are up?

Crime rates are down in most western nations even where incarceration rates have remained the same in those countries. This doesn't mean the assertion isn't true for the USA, but it suggests it needs careful analysis of the statistics.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I read global warming rates are up while simultaneously piracy levels are down

Ah, the original contention was that 18th century-style pirate numbers are down and this was a correlation, and it was a joke. Actual piracy rates were going up through the 90s and 00s.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

There have been several studies done that show how crimes are reported is driving the numbers moreso than an actual drop in crime. Elected officials at the local level have a vested interest in crime numbers going down.

In the UK there are the official figures but also a separate, independent survey (British Crime Survey) that determines victimisation rates independent of reporting using consistent methodology* and that shows falls in crime too. I don't know of anything similar in the USA.

* Crimes get reclassified sometimes. A few years ago there was a 20% jump up in violent crime stats that was due to various crimes not previously classed as violent (e.g. an altercation in a bar that did not actually come to blows) being reclassified as violent, but the BCS methodology didn't change, so provided a bit of a check on that. It's possible to go back through police records and work out what the rates would be without the changes, but it's a bit time consuming to do so.

 

[Tbone76]

What percentage of cases go to trial?

That's a number that I don't have. I was referring to both trial juries and grand juries. Sorry for the confusion.