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They Say Crime Is On The Decrease....

I apologize in advance if this is way off base. I generally don't post during the first hour of waking, but the way those questions are being asked is nothing short of snide and condescending. When you follow up each question with "according to whom", you're automatically calling ANY source provided into question. In this case, since it's nearly obvious you will not agree with whatever findings are provided, it leaves little incentive for One Drop or anyone to provide links. Links, that if you were truly interested in learning the answers to your question, you would find easily and then, not believe them.

So here's a few:

Exonorees: Invalid Link Removed

A handful that were executed that were possibly innocent: Invalid Link Removed

More interesting reading: US death row study: 4% of defendants sentenced to die are innocent | World news | The Guardian

The rest of the research you can do easily.

When One Drop said:



That really can't be argued with.

Not referring to you TF, but I'm becoming less surprised by the instances of someone being wrapped up in a flag or a religion, standing for half of those values, yet disregarding the rest. Half a hypocrite is still a hypocrite.

Thanks for the links, I was posting from an airport and find linking from mobile sites clumsy.

I assume if someone has strong opinions on a factual matter they will have done some research and already have access to information supporting a contrary argument.
 
Very well thought out post (especially for the first waking hour).

I never stated that I think the death penalty is the perfect answer. I never even stated that I wasn't open to other ideas.

Also, I would argue that the instances of putting innocents to death is bound to be dropping to almost nothing due to growth in technology and the appeals process. Sure, up until the early 2000s some districts had to rely on blood type and testimony. That is almost never the case anyore.

Forensics knowledge has grown exponentially in the last couple decades. Speaking of half hypocrites, it's funny to me how many will argue for global warming and base their argument on not-yet-perfected science that had gotten more wrong than right in the past few decades. Yet the same person will argue against the death penalty due to not-yet-perfected science. Balance that out for me.

So, the risk of killing one innocent person over improper conclusions is not worth taking. But changing our entire economy here in the states and risking getting driven into the ground by countries "not as enlightened as we are" is?

Hypocracy.... It's a funny thing, isn't it?

Oh, and, good morning. I have two young children. The luxury of waking after dark left me several years ago. What does it feel like?;)

Science is never perfected, this statement shows a lack of understanding of the process.

There is a commonly trotted out canard that an imminent Ice Age was predicted in the '70s, used to discredit the near unanimous agreement that the current rate of climate change in large and mostly man made. It was simply a few sensationalist articles in popular magazines that were never accepted by the scientific community at the time.

There is nothing hypocritical about either position; one insists the legal process be irreproachable, the other generally aims at requiring EVERY country to engage to reduce carbon emmsisions.

The lobbying and massive amounts of money spent discrediting climate science and science in general, along with the last economic crash, has given countries who do not wish to sacrifice anything except their own environment the excuse to walk away from negotiating serious international protocols.

Don't believe what the deniers claim about those that want change, they should not be allowed to set the agenda.

There are countries poised to benefit massively from the new energy paradigm while others are will be left behind because they could not adapt or profit quickly enough. The U.S. could be leading th way, fortunately they often do the right thing eventually. The whole economy dos not have to change, though the big results will come from structural changes as not sacrifices from citizens.
 
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On shows that I watch about crime stats.....insisting that numbers are way down since days of yore.

And that really we are a bit too paranoid.....apparently it's the safest time in history to be alive according to them.

Ok...so if that 's true then:-

(1) Why are more people being incarcerated than ever in the U.S.?

(2) Why have more prisons been built?

(3) Why do more police than ever respond to a single call?

(4) Why do police need more and more highpowered weapons and hi-tech equipment?

(5) Why are laws constantly being put on the table to give the authorities increasing carte-blanche to do what they do, putting aside previous civilian "rights"?
Crimes may be down, but crime reporting is way up. They are building more prisons because the population is growing.

1. The U.S. population was less than 147 million when I was born. It's 320 million now. More people = more criminals. More criminals = more jails.

2. See #1

3. Because more police are being shot by criminals.

4. Because they want to have weapons comparable to those of modern criminals.

5. I'm unaware of those kinds of laws. Please cite a few.

When it comes to the world of cops and criminals, I'm with the cops.
 
Crimes may be down, but crime reporting is way up. They are building more prisons because the population is growing.

1. The U.S. population was less than 147 million when I was born. It's 320 million now. More people = more criminals. More criminals = more jails.

2. See #1

3. Because more police are being shot by criminals.

4. Because they want to have weapons comparable to those of modern criminals.

5. I'm unaware of those kinds of laws. Please cite a few.

When it comes to the world of cops and criminals, I'm with the cops.

You can be with the cops and still be against current incarceration trends.

The rates of incarceration per percentage of population has grown.

We are often talking about non violent and petty crimes and ones based on possession of soft drugs, and which penalize some segments of the population more than others.
 
You can be with the cops and still be against current incarceration trends.

The rates of incarceration per percentage of population has grown.

We are often talking about non violent and petty crimes and ones based on possession of soft drugs, and which penalize some segments of the population more than others.

Is that because more of that "segment" is caught, or because some other "segments" get let go? I'm sure you have accurate stats on that too (just as with every other blanket statement you make).

By the way, there is nothing at all "almost unanimous" about climate change science. Thousands of scientists have signed petitions have signed documents stating otherwise.

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Well over 30,000 in the US alone including 9,000+ PhD.

Hardly seems unanimous. But I'm sure they are all religious zealots and really hate science, right?

So, again, you are one blanket statement after another relating to things you can't make balance. If 30,000 in the US alone don't buy it, where do you get "almost unanimous"? Just how freaking many scientists are there? Millions?
 
Is that because more of that "segment" is caught, or because some other "segments" get let go? I'm sure you have accurate stats on that too (just as with every other blanket statement you make).

By the way, there is nothing at all "almost unanimous" about climate change science. Thousands of scientists have signed petitions have signed documents stating otherwise.

Link Removed

Well over 30,000 in the US alone including 9,000+ PhD.

Hardly seems unanimous. But I'm sure they are all religious zealots and really hate science, right?

So, again, you are one blanket statement after another relating to things you can't make balance. If 30,000 in the US alone don't buy it, where do you get "almost unanimous"? Just how freaking many scientists are there? Millions?
Probably, yes. "Science" covers an incredibly broad range of disciplines. I wonder how many of the "scientists" who signed that petition are actual climatologists, as opposed to those who specialize in very different areas?
 
You can be with the cops and still be against current incarceration trends.

The rates of incarceration per percentage of population has grown.

We are often talking about non violent and petty crimes and ones based on possession of soft drugs, and which penalize some segments of the population more than others.
OK. But I have no concerns about my interactions with the police. When they approach me, I am respectful and compliant. I've never been arrested, I haven't gotten a ticket since 1987, and I'm still alive. Cops have no idea what's in the mind of a belligerent detainee, so they're apt to be more assertive when a person is non-compliant. As far as penalizing some segments of society more than others, I'll assume you mean that segment that participates in criminal activities.
 
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That wpuld be their own fault. We shouldn't outright ban something because some people don't want to have said thing.
I wouldn't call it their own fault, but their right. If a person doesn't want a gun, it shouldn't be imposed on them.
Crime is most prevelant in poverty-stricken areas, where the vast majority of people are relying on the government for survival. I don't expect people with so little money be able to afford a weapon, so that's why we should issue them to people. That way we can imcrease the safety of the innocent without taking away their constitutional right to bear arms. (We are talking about the US, right?)
I suspect that even in poverty stricken areas, there are plenty of guns, and that you could put buckets of guns at every street corner and it wouldn't increase the vanishingly small fraction of people for whom a gun is realistically a source of protection. I should have admitted that I don't believe claims that guns protect people at any level worth taking seriously. It seems absurd to impose guns on people, to protect somebody's extremist interpretation of their rights. This is nothing but a total capitulation to a toxic industry.

There are plenty of guns all over the place. When they have programs where people can turn in their guns, no questions asked, they collect tons of guns. If you give people more guns than they want, they will sell them.

If the NRA cares about the poor, they can support my party.
 
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You can be with the cops and still be against current incarceration trends.

The rates of incarceration per percentage of population has grown.

We are often talking about non violent and petty crimes and ones based on possession of soft drugs, and which penalize some segments of the population more than others.

Maybe the incarceration rates are not in line with population because some commit crimes at a higher rate.

For example (this is for NYC only):

In NYC, blacks account for 22.6% of the population. (2013 census)

However, blacks commit crimes in a disproportionate rate. Below are the figures for violent (NOT soft) crimes in 2014 AS REPORTED BY THE VICTIM:

Murder - 59.8%
Rape - 49.3%
Other Felony Sex Crimes - 45.9%
Robbery - 70.6%
Felony Assault - 55.3%
Grand Larceny - 60.7%
Shooting Incidents - 75.8% (interesting note: Whites - 1.4%)

Source - http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...planning/enforcement_report_year_end_2014.pdf
 
I wouldn't call it their own fault, but their right. If a person doesn't want a gun, it shouldn't be imposed on them.

I suspect that even in poverty stricken areas, there are plenty of guns, and that you could put buckets of guns at every street corner and it wouldn't increase the vanishingly small fraction of people for whom a gun is realistically a source of protection. I should have admitted that I don't believe claims that guns protect people at any level worth taking seriously. It seems absurd to impose guns on people, to protect somebody's extremist interpretation of their rights. This is nothing but a total capitulation to a toxic industry.

There are plenty of guns all over the place. When they have programs where people can turn in their guns, no questions asked, they collect tons of guns. If you give people more guns than they want, they will sell them.

If the NRA cares about the poor, they can support my party.

Alright, this is fun.

When I say give everyone a gun, I don't mean forcefully. There should be multiple oppurtunities to receive free if someone wants one, similar to a welfare program. If cost is the issue,
give them out only to those who can't afford one themselves. I also think it's funny you believe that a gun isn't protection for most people. That would be true, if you replace gun with bow or something, but a gun can be used by anyone with good eyes (or glasses) and arms that can be raised. It doesn't take someone skilled to shoot a gun, especially not at close range.

Let's put our minds towards the mindset of a criminal who wants to break and enter a home. Would that criminal be as likely to break and enter into a home that he knew was probably armed? I think not, but if you have a counter argument go ahead.

Oh, and extremist? No, extremist is think everyone should be able to have military-grade sniper rifles or that no one should have any weapon at all. It isn't extremist to think that a country should maintain its constitutional laws.
 
Maybe the incarceration rates are not in line with population because some commit crimes at a higher rate.

For example (this is for NYC only):

In NYC, blacks account for 22.6% of the population. (2013 census)

However, blacks commit crimes in a disproportionate rate. Below are the figures for violent (NOT soft) crimes in 2014 AS REPORTED BY THE VICTIM:

Murder - 59.8%
Rape - 49.3%
Other Felony Sex Crimes - 45.9%
Robbery - 70.6%
Felony Assault - 55.3%
Grand Larceny - 60.7%
Shooting Incidents - 75.8% (interesting note: Whites - 1.4%)

Source - http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...planning/enforcement_report_year_end_2014.pdf

I don't have the exact facts, but that's a trend in the US. Minorities commit more crimes than majorities, which is why racial bias in the police force exists but that's probably a different topic for another day.

However, blacks are usually put in jail for longer for the same crime. I think that there could be a reason that isn't racism, but I haven't researched so idk.
 
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Is that because more of that "segment" is caught, or because some other "segments" get let go? I'm sure you have accurate stats on that too (just as with every other blanket statement you make).

By the way, there is nothing at all "almost unanimous" about climate change science. Thousands of scientists have signed petitions have signed documents stating otherwise.

Link Removed

Well over 30,000 in the US alone including 9,000+ PhD.

Hardly seems unanimous. But I'm sure they are all religious zealots and really hate science, right?

So, again, you are one blanket statement after another relating to things you can't make balance. If 30,000 in the US alone don't buy it, where do you get "almost unanimous"? Just how freaking many scientists are there? Millions?
As a geologist, I think the evidence for climate change is strong. However, I don't think anyone knows the comparative cause between human activities and natural processes. I do think it would be naive to expect that burning all the wood and fossil fuels we have since cave-man days would not have some impact on the world's climate. If this is predominantly natural warming in the midst of an interglacial period, as has happened hundreds of time before the advent of humans, then there ain't a danged thing we can do about it and our time would be best spent planning on how to deal with rising sea level. If it is primarily human caused, we still may be in the same boat - we may have passed the tipping point. From my perspective, it's a good time to be old.
 
As a geologist, I think the evidence for climate change is strong. However, I don't think anyone knows the comparative cause between human activities and natural processes. If this is predominantly natural warming in the midst of an interglacial period, as has happened hundreds of time before the advent of humans, then there ain't a danged thing we can do about it and our time would be best spent planning on how to deal with rising sea level. If it is primarily human caused, we still may be in the same boat - we may have passed the tipping point. From my perspective, it's a good time to be old.


I think we'll be fine. I think our great grandkids will be fine. This planet has survived much worse than the human race can throw at it. Asteroids, floods, massice valcanic eruptions, etc. (I'm sure I'm not telling you anything.)

Even if we concentrated all of our efforts on destroying the planet we couldn't pull it off. We could shoot off every nuke we own and a few hundred years from now (virtually nothing in real terms) there would be little evidence of it that anyone other than geologists could point to.

I suppose I'm guilty of the derail. Not sure what this has to do with crime other than I did read an article from a true idiot not long ago who "blamed a rise in violent crime on hotter temps as a result of man-caused global warming". I laughed right out loud in the airport. And this person was a professor. Our poor kids. What a dipstick.
 
Alright, this is fun.

When I say give everyone a gun, I don't mean forcefully. There should be multiple oppurtunities to receive free if someone wants one, similar to a welfare program. If cost is the issue,
give them out only to those who can't afford one themselves. I also think it's funny you believe that a gun isn't protection for most people. That would be true, if you replace gun with bow or something, but a gun can be used by anyone with good eyes (or glasses) and arms that can be raised. It doesn't take someone skilled to shoot a gun, especially not at close range.

Let's put our minds towards the mindset of a criminal who wants to break and enter a home. Would that criminal be as likely to break and enter into a home that he knew was probably armed? I think not, but if you have a counter argument go ahead.

Oh, and extremist? No, extremist is think everyone should be able to have military-grade sniper rifles or that no one should have any weapon at all. It isn't extremist to think that a country should maintain its constitutional laws.
My counter argument is that we are already as armed as we're going to be, where "armed" means that a person has a gun and is capable and willing to successfully defend themselves with it. This depends on the person, not the gun, and it depends on exactly what happens, none of which can be predicted or controlled. I don't think you can make people "armed" just by giving them guns.

The mindset of the criminal is that they know this, and are committing crimes at a rate commensurate with the population being as "armed" as we are ever going to be.

I believe that a gun is just a dangerous toy for most people. This isn't anti-gun, or even limited to guns, but just reflects a realistic view of human nature. I also have my own expectations of what happens when a lot of people get into their cars with their cell phones, that would probably offend those people.

I have no idea what it's like to own a gun or to think about defending myself with one. If I were given one, I would try to dispose of it, or render it inoperable. I found a cache of ammo in my house when I was remodeling a bathroom, and we had the police come and take the stuff away. I strongly suspect the previous owner, an old widow with grown kids, had no idea it was there. Most likely, someone else in the household got the idea of having a gun, then lost interest in it. I have searched high and low to make sure there is no gun in my house.

The TSA confiscates guns from people in airports because the owners "forgot" that they were carrying, and walk through the metal detector. This is the mental level of people that we're dealing with.

The constitutional laws have many interpretations. ;)
 
My counter argument is that we are already as armed as we're going to be, where "armed" means that a person has a gun and is capable and willing to successfully defend themselves with it. This depends on the person, not the gun, and it depends on exactly what happens, none of which can be predicted or controlled. I don't think you can make people "armed" just by giving them guns.

The mindset of the criminal is that they know this, and are committing crimes at a rate commensurate with the population being as "armed" as we are ever going to be.

I believe that a gun is just a dangerous toy for most people. This isn't anti-gun, or even limited to guns, but just reflects a realistic view of human nature. I also have my own expectations of what happens when a lot of people get into their cars with their cell phones, that would probably offend those people.

I have no idea what it's like to own a gun or to think about defending myself with one. If I were given one, I would try to dispose of it, or render it inoperable. I found a cache of ammo in my house when I was remodeling a bathroom, and we had the police come and take the stuff away. I strongly suspect the previous owner, an old widow with grown kids, had no idea it was there. Most likely, someone else in the household got the idea of having a gun, then lost interest in it. I have searched high and low to make sure there is no gun in my house.

The TSA confiscates guns from people in airports because the owners "forgot" that they were carrying, and walk through the metal detector. This is the mental level of people that we're dealing with.

The constitutional laws have many interpretations. ;)

Fair point(s). I suppose we just disagree... But how does "the right to bear arms" have a serious second interpretation?
 
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Fair point(s). I suppose we just disagree... But how does "the right to bear arms" have a serious second interpretation?
In my view, differences of interpretation could have to do with what kinds of guns people can have, requirements for licensing, training, background checks, how they can be sold, where people can carry their guns, and so forth. The fact that the Supreme Court has taken up 2nd amendment cases suggests that there are conflicting interpretations.
 
Is that because more of that "segment" is caught, or because some other "segments" get let go? I'm sure you have accurate stats on that too (just as with every other blanket statement you make).

By the way, there is nothing at all "almost unanimous" about climate change science. Thousands of scientists have signed petitions have signed documents stating otherwise.

Link Removed

Well over 30,000 in the US alone including 9,000+ PhD.

Hardly seems unanimous. But I'm sure they are all religious zealots and really hate science, right?

So, again, you are one blanket statement after another relating to things you can't make balance. If 30,000 in the US alone don't buy it, where do you get "almost unanimous"? Just how freaking many scientists are there? Millions?

Firstly, that survey is seriously outdated (2000-2002). The canvassing methodology has never been released, nor the totals canvassed, which is ironic, considering the subject is scientific validity. Furthermore, it was estimated in 2008 that since the early '70s eligible scientists in the U.S. alone (where the petition was solely run) there were over 10 million eligible graduates,making the percentage who disagree ~0,3%. That is tiny. Note the language of the petition as well, it concerns reaction to the movie An Inconvenient Truth and the requirement of efforts to reduce carbon emmisions by industry outlined in the Kyoto Protocol. So it is a petition against the political decisions on how to treat the issue as well as the science behind it.

So the answer to your question Millions?, is yes, millions in the U.S. alone.

More important is the consensus of climate scientists, of course , which is undeniable.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never mentioned religion or the motives of scientists. I was referring to the lobbies and think tanks that disseminate anti-science and denial propaganda, of which this petition is another example:

The 30,000 Global Warming Petition is Easily-Debunked Propaganda | DeSmogBlog

As to segments of the population, poor people tend to use certain drugs and affluent people others, and wealthy people do not get routinely stopped and searched or have their homes searched for possession, etc, nor do they need to commit petty crimes to support their habits. This is only one way certain segments are unfairly targeted, and they also have the means to navigate the judicial process more easily and benefit from biases in the sentencing process. Blanket statements, but they are supported by research.
 
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In my view, differences of interpretation could have to do with what kinds of guns people can have, requirements for licensing, training, background checks, how they can be sold, where people can carry their guns, and so forth. The fact that the Supreme Court has taken up 2nd amendment cases suggests that there are conflicting interpretations.

I think there should be some limitations on guns and carrying, like you can't carry one into a school. You should obviously also need a permit to carry a concealed weapon, and you should also get regular mental health checks and training for that gun. Those are just some ideas though.