Thinking about 12's again.

[impactwrench]

Another vote for the 2 or 3 way "super 12s", especially the fEARful 12/6 cabs.

Weigh around 40 lbs (often less).
Can easily handle anything a 450 watt amp can throw at them.
And...
If you're handy with a saw, you can build them youself and save some $$$$.

I'm no expert, but I think the fEarful cabs are all designed to have a flat frequency curve. The 15" cabs go a few dB louder but should technically have the same sound as a 12" fEarful.

You might check out Genz Benz cabs as well. You could stack two 12t shuttle cabs and fit them easily in a Focus.

 

[Mike M.]

+1 (and then some)

F3, SPL, and XMAX. Look it up and learn them well!

Thanks again to all. That's what I like about this place...you give someone things to think about and then some!

F3..SPL..XMAX...could be spec's for motor oil for all I know! But I will read up on these things when time allows. But when the time comes that I do start looking all I can do is what I've done before, which is to listen to what works best for me. But I will take all into account from what's been said here. Good stuff to consider.

Still open to suggestions.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't know Jimmy, in this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/speaker-size-characteristics-220359/index6.html


between posts #10 and 17, someone as informed as TB's own Tom Bowlus makes an interesting observation about the apparent inherent tone qualities of 2 different Berg cabs, that should be flat tonally, with different speaker sizes. Suggesting that maybe the speakers (not the caband speaker) actually do have a specific "voice" Interesting.

Well the only thing attributable to size alone is how much the speakers beam, and we don't rightly know how accurate the Bergantino DSP system is. So maybe Tom was hearing stuff that could be attributed to beaming or there was something about the DSP system that couldn't make them sound identical. Don't know...wasn't there...didn't see the movie. But Tom can hear, and if he says he heard it that way, then he heard it that way.

 

[pfschim]

Don't know...wasn't there...didn't see the movie. But Tom can hear, and if he says he heard it that way, then he heard it that way.

yep, if it was just about anyone other than Tom, I would not have thought twice about it.

 

[Virgil]

I have a Super 12 and an Aguilar SL 112, and it does the job in spades. I am in an 11 piece band with 3 horns, 4 singers and a full rhythm section. I have PA support, but I use one SL and it fills the stage.

 

[GrowlerBox]

yep, if it was just about anyone other than Tom, I would not have thought twice about it.

On the other hand, he made that comment in 2005. No doubt a good few cabinets through the basement since then (a Tom-specific "water under the bridge"-type metaphor there), and I think we've all learned a lot since then.

Well, maybe not "all" ...

 

[lowendfriend]

I use the G-K NEO412, won't fit in a Focus but the G-K NEO 12's are awesome! Look into the G-K NEO212 cabs.

Loved Gauss. Best division Cetec had, Broadcast group second, Vega wireless got more press though.

The Neo 212-II cab is just awesome. it's 50 lbs and not real large either, so you're good for the Focus. 2 1x12 Neo's will give you the sound but with added portability and wattage options.

I've not heard huge love for the MBE 212 cabs...they are only 33 (?) lbs but I'm not sure they project as well as the Neo 212's. I've not tried them so I'll defer to others.

Another amazing sounding 12-cab is the Mesa PowerHouse 212, but it packs about 50% more pounds and dollars.

Another highly raved 12-cab is the Genz Benz 12 over 12 cab (I believe its the NeoX-212)

the 12's are a versatile speaker tone and volume-wise.

 

[dogofgod]

Just bought the GK MB212 Combo - love the sound!

The 212 is a champ.

 

[dog1]

I don't know Jimmy, in this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/speaker-size-characteristics-220359/index6.html


between posts #10 and 17, someone as informed as TB's own Tom Bowlus makes an interesting observation about the apparent inherent tone qualities of 2 different Berg cabs, that should be flat tonally, with different speaker sizes. Suggesting that maybe the speakers (not the caband speaker) actually do have a specific "voice" Interesting.

Disclaimer: I have no dog in this hunt at all (i.e. the specific sound of any particular speaker size). I happen to like 12's very much, but have also enjoyed, and had good luck with, all sorts of cabs and drivers from 8's to 18's over my 35 years of bass playing.

Yeah. Well said.

I am a 2-112 player. But, I also have a 410 and a 215 here at the house. They basically are not used, but could be. While I prefer my 12's, I like anything that will amplify by bass.

And speaking of 12's. My third bass amp was a Fender (1966) 50W tube head with 212's. That 212 cab sucked. We have come a long way. If we were comparing anything to that old Fender 212....I would say get another speaker size.

 

[tombowlus]

I don't know Jimmy, in this thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/speaker-size-characteristics-220359/index6.html


between posts #10 and 17, someone as informed as TB's own Tom Bowlus makes an interesting observation about the apparent inherent tone qualities of 2 different Berg cabs, that should be flat tonally, with different speaker sizes. Suggesting that maybe the speakers (not the caband speaker) actually do have a specific "voice" Interesting.

Disclaimer: I have no dog in this hunt at all (i.e. the specific sound of any particular speaker size). I happen to like 12's very much, but have also enjoyed, and had good luck with, all sorts of cabs and drivers from 8's to 18's over my 35 years of bass playing.

Playing the IP212 and IP310 was a bit of an eye opener. It opened up questions (for me, at least) about how two cabs can cover a virtually identical frequency range at virtually identical output levels, but still deliver the sound somewhat differently.

That being said, I would aboslutely caution against trying categorize the sonic performance of bass cabs based only upon the size of the drivers used.

 

[tombowlus]

On the other hand, he made that comment in 2005. No doubt a good few cabinets through the basement since then (a Tom-specific "water under the bridge"-type metaphor there), and I think we've all learned a lot since then.

Well, maybe not "all" ...

True, but those two cabs still sound a bit different. Granted, this may also be due to the fact that there are three voice coils/drivers/sound sources in the IP310, and only two in the IP212.

I've also had conversations with Phil Jones about how the flexing of the cone in larger drivers introduces a coloration or distortion that is not there when the cone and the speaker motor are closer to the same size (which is why he uses lots of smaller diameter drivers).

My point being, there's a lot going on, here, and I am as inherently skeptical of folks who claim that you cannot hear a difference between drivers of different sizes which are spec'd out the same as I am of folks who claim that all 15's sound this way, and all 12's sound that way, etc.

I think that measurements and specs are very useful. But I still believe that the ultimate measuring tools - our ears - are the best measuring stick (subjective though they may be).

 

[fingerbun]

Sigh.

I spent a couple of hours Saturday trying out speakers. I know the theory is that any size speaker can deliver any sound with proper design, but the fact is boxes with 10s in them typically sound thinner to me than boxes with 12s or 15s. I don't think it's just my imagination, since one of the boxes I tried as an Aguilar that I was told was a 2x12. I was thinking "How disappointing" after I heard it, and then the guy in the shop said...."oh hang on, it's a 4x10 box, sorry".

Maybe it's something in the box design, but then it's commonly acknowledged that smaller speakers respond to transients faster. So Maybe the difference I am hearing and liking when I hear 15s vs 10s is something other than frequency response.

Thought I'd post this not to start another speaker size war, but simply to say I am hearing differences when I try different cabs.

Next weekend I audition some 15s as well. I wanted to go smaller to reduce beaming, which I think of as "Different frequency response in different parts of the room". But haven't found a box of 10s I like and the choices in 8ohm 2x12 seem a bit limited, especially if I want to be budget conscious. And while I don't want to transport it, I think I am going to have to surrender to the dark side and try an Ampeg SVT cab. If there is a box that proves 10s can do the job, that has to be it.

Jimmy, if you are reading this, have you ever mixed and matched between your SVT and Portaflex rigs? How does the Portaflex driving the SVT cab differ from it driving the portaflex cabs?

 

[RickenBoogie]

Thought I'd post this not to start another speaker size war, but simply to say I am hearing differences when I try different cabs

Exactly!! It's not the size of the driver, but the overall design of the box they're in.

 

[fingerbun]

Thought I'd post this not to start another speaker size war, but simply to say I am hearing differences when I try different cabs

Exactly!! It's not the size of the driver, but the overall design of the box they're in.

So who designs and builds boxes with tens that sound as good as 15s but without beaming issues? I can't be the only person in the world who wants to have their cake and eat it too!!!!!!

I'd try something like fEarfuls, but I can't afford to spend the money building it just to see if I like it

 

[iiipopes]

I am really enjoying my Carvin MB12 for both EB and DB. The technology has vastly improved since Fender's large 4X12 angled baffle cab of the early '70's, (like here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f127/...face-matching-4x12-cab;-0-shipped-obo-638906/ ) which I actually plugged the ports and used as a guitar cabinet instead so I could run a large Marshall head and not give haircuts to the first three rows. But I'm not sure I can totally wean myself off the "15 tone," however. I do keep a ported 1X15 cab handy when I want that extra extended 1/2 octave down with the "vintage hump" to give some thickness @ 100 to 150 Hz.