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Thinking about a studio project

O

oniman7

Jun 1, 2010
2,490
10
Saint Augustine, Florida
#1
I have a rock band that is about to start performing live. However, I had the idea to do a studio project lately. I have compositional skills along with some idea of MIDI programming. I'm going to try to get together with a local guitarist/engineer. My idea is to get together, write 10-12 songs in a style we like (Periphery, Tesseract, Karnivool, Scale the Summit), record them there and if necessary pay for some mastering, and then market it on the internet. Do both digital and physical sales.

I was going to save up some money to invest in silver or stocks but this seems like a much more emotionally rewarding investment (and perhaps financially as well).

There are a couple purposes for this. First, it's an experiment in seeing if it can be made financially viable with my current skills. It would also be something to look back on and know I've accomplished, as well as add to a resume. I'm 17 now and it feels like now is the right time to do this before other things get in the way. I also want to learn to be financially stable with music at some point (even if it takes a while) and this seems like a good thing to cut my teeth on.

Has anybody had any experience with a similar project?
 
#2
It's never a bad move to make a record. You just need to do your research and do it smart. The bands you've listed have big production values, especially Periphery and Tesseract who are pretty much the main names in modern Djent right now. To get a AAA sound you would need to track and mix in a very very good studio and it may cost you a great deal of money. You need to identify early just what your objectives are and decide where the line is drawn in the sand.

The tracking is the bit you have to get right. Mix and Mastering won't make the songs better in the slightest if you don't track right. If you tie a bow around a poo and cover it in rose petals, it's still a poo.

But if you're just keen to make a record here's my advice. Download Reaper and start learning. Grab a guitar simulator like Amplitube and a drum programming program, like EZ drummer. Download bucketloads of free VSTs and start fiddling around with recording. That way when it comes to actually making a record you have an understanding of basic concepts. It also helps you learn to track to a grid which is the most important thing you can learn.

Maybe one of the mods could move this to the audio production sub where you might get more targeted advice. This subforum is mostly for complaining about drummers.
 
#3
Woo Whoo!

This is right down my alley and I agree with IPYF. Whatever you do, do NOT fall for the "fix it in the mix" trap. Fix it in your performance and mic placement.

Generally speaking, the "names" have a bigger budget than you do, and work with amazing engineers in beautiful studios. That being said, we live in amazing times where home recordings can come out great. Meshuggah for example is using the AXE FX direct these days, and with products like EZ Drummer (it is really easy to use), having a great studio with great rooms isn't as essential as it used to be.

Check out http://therecordingrevolution.com/ It has been a great resource for me. It's run by Graham Cochrane, an engineer in Orlando Florida.

Consider these articles:
1) 5 Minutes to a Better Mix (video series)
2) http://therecordingrevolution.com/2011/02/21/two-singer-songwriter-studios-for-under-300/
3) http://therecordingrevolution.com/videos/?ytfilter=published&ytid=1o9L7agaluo
4) http://therecordingrevolution.com/videos/?ytfilter=published&ytid=0aS6XfNL2Cs


I'm using a 2011 iMac with Pro Tools 10, the Eleven Rack, and a Presonus AudioBox1818vsl so that I can mic my drumset. I'm using the Yamaha HS80m's for monitors. I'm no pro but my results are pretty good so far. Don't be intimidated by it. In fact Guitar Center offers their "Recording Made Easy" classes for free. This month their on Garage Band, so next month will be Pro Tools. I definitely recommend goin gto this class if you have a GC nearby.

BTW: 11R comes with Pro Tools for the same price as Pro Tools on its own: $700. It's a processor & interface (with SVT/8x10 models in addition to the others).

I hope this helps in some way. 8-)
 
#4
I think this would be very emotionally rewarding for you. Recording original material always is.
BUT, only spend disposable income on this kind of project. This isnt like silver or stocks.
You could (and hopefully) make money on it, but be prepared to end up with a very personally satisfying experience that cost you financially in the end.
 
#5
Hey guys, thanks for the advice! I have been recording with reaper and addictive drums (and doing MIDI with reason) for about a year now. I am not extraordinary but not new. Rather than amplitube I have a lot of amp vst's and impulse loaders, though I really want an axe fx. I would do pre production in house and then go to a producer later. He pulled greatness out of my last bands when we were a bunch of sixteen year Olds with no experience. I'm on my phone but try YouTube searching "The Magistrate - Polaris" or replace polaris with "INK". It cost about $250 a song with drums and vocals so would be a little less since I don't necessarily want vocals (don't have them) and that was half the cost or more
 
#6
tangentmusic said:
I think this would be very emotionally rewarding for you. Recording original material always is.
BUT, only spend disposable income on this kind of project. This isnt like silver or stocks.
You could (and hopefully) make money on it, but be prepared to end up with a very personally satisfying experience that cost you financially in the end.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I would like to make money but understand I may slowly sink two grand into it and not see it back. I figure being 17 and living with my parents is the best time to do it. plus, once it's done virtual sales will cost me nothing for many years
 
#7
At 17, it may be worth your while to talk to any connections you have and maybe intern at a local studio. It can be a rewarding experience emotionally and if you have experience on the engineer's side of the desk it can exponentially increase your chances of making a living with music down the line. I agree with what others have said and what you're doing so far, working with Reaper and Reason. If you have room a great investment can be a decent set of studio monitors if you're going to be tracking anything at home.

My band just finished up recording a 5 song EP in a fairly high quality studio here in Pittsburgh. We're very satisfied with the result and the cost for 5 songs came to about $2000-$2500 including mastering. Our instrumentation is a bit more varied than yours and that included several layers of vocals/background vocals and live recording of drums. You may not make money with this but it will make you better at targeting your marketing and the process will be very rewarding. Good luck.
 
#8
BryanM said:
At 17, it may be worth your while to talk to any connections you have and maybe intern at a local studio. It can be a rewarding experience emotionally and if you have experience on the engineer's side of the desk it can exponentially increase your chances of making a living with music down the line. I agree with what others have said and what you're doing so far, working with Reaper and Reason. If you have room a great investment can be a decent set of studio monitors if you're going to be tracking anything at home.

My band just finished up recording a 5 song EP in a fairly high quality studio here in Pittsburgh. We're very satisfied with the result and the cost for 5 songs came to about $2000-$2500 including mastering. Our instrumentation is a bit more varied than yours and that included several layers of vocals/background vocals and live recording of drums. You may not make money with this but it will make you better at targeting your marketing and the process will be very rewarding. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this too. At 17 I was sitting in my bedroom with Acid Pro and a guitar lead with a 3.5mm converter plugged directly into my PC microphone input, though that was a while ago now. I didn't go into a recording studio until I was 23.

If you're in the US I think you're quite fortuitous with studio prices being quite competitive too. Over here it's much more expensive. A studio at $400 a day would be absolutely bargain basement for us.

I'd focus on getting good songs with compatible parts before even thinking about hitting the studio. Make sure every cat who's going to be playing knows how to play their parts so fluently that they could play them on any instrument required, blindfolded. Until you have strong, properly thought out songs and you know those songs backwards forwards and sideways any attempt at making a serious record is just going to be an exercise in spending. Just remember that you're never as prepared as you need to be and that every step further that you overprepare might save you a lot of money.
 
#9
yeah, umm, I wouldn't depend on so called "virtual sales" to be coming in very much in the years that follow. To sell that stuff you will still have to market it and all that.
Good to get all the studio experience you can while you are young.
Your best bet if you want to try and make a few bucks off that stuff is to start your own publishing company via ASCAP or BMI. get all your songs registered, copyrighted, etc.
That way, a few years down the line you will have a catalog of tunes for whatever you might want to use them for, film, performance, commercials, any number of things.

And store all your masters on more than 1 media device, as those things will eventually crap out on you. Digital storage is not forever.
 
#10
I do plan on marketing. I'm not bad at marketing and social media and am considering an internship locally doing just that.

Anyways, I'm thinking the cost of recording 10-12 songs would exceed $2,000. I'm curious if I should just take the same money and get myself a decent set up (computer, monitors, a processor like POD HD, etc.) I know part of what I'm paying for is experience, but I only get to go that number of times. If I put down the money for the equipment, I can learn with it and always have it so my overhead stays fixed.

EDIT: here are two songs that were tracked at $250 a piece
Invalid Link Removed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vql09BzJ_tg

Although there are some things I would change (Make my bass a bit louder :D) it's hard to give up the expertise that gave us that kind of polished sound.
 
#12
Online "Virtual" CD's.

While the "virtual" tracks sold online are great to get your music out there, and you'll more than likely be listening to it on your iPod or computer anyway, there is nothing like opening up a box full of CD's and looking at that beautiful (or nightmarish) artwork with your bands name across the top. It makes the dream more "real" by holding it in you hand. It also makes a great hand out as an "aural business card"

In regards to "real" studio verses DIY, there is something nice about having the ability to record an idea whenever you need to.

You can develop a home studio for relatively cheap, but if you're trying to set up a dozen microphones to mic a drum kit, it will get pricey. Although some people use their home studios for the finished product, a home studio could be designed for making scratch tracks/demos, saving the actual album recording for a pro studio. A few drum loops (EZ Drummer goes for $70) and an amp sim, or even The Eleven Rack (amp sims/interface that comes with a full copy of Pro Tools for $700) go a long way.

You can actually do quite alot with very little. Case in point: http://therecordingrevolution.com/2013/05/22/recording-your-band-with-only-one-microphone-video/

I hope this helps in some way.
 
#13
oniman7 said:
Somebody mentioned moving this to the recording subforum but I'm more interested in the business side: Money spent on equipment and DIY vs. going to a studio, marketing techniques, Capitalizing on a non-live fan base, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion that you can't get dedicated fans from the internet unless you give people a reason to be interested in you. Non-live projects are usually only successful if they've got a big name in them. You don't so why should I listen to and buy your music? Because you've 'marketed' it well? I'm busy and there's more quality music out there then I have time for. You would have to be a seriously impressive bunch to get me even slightly interested. That requires you to have amazing songs and at least decent production values. Then you have to find a reason for me to give you enough time to get hooked on your music.

But for the sake of a hypothetical lets say that you write and record the best album on the planet for under $5000. You do somehow manage to market it using forums, and friends and youtube and facebook etc. You manage to get it across some blogs and some moderate traffic review websites. It reviews well, people are interested. Lots of buzz is happening so you get the record up on bandcamp for $10 which is a reasonable amount of money these days for a full length digital download.

What happens next? Can you make back your $5000 without playing shows? I simply don't believe it's possible. Even the biggest metal bands these days don't sell 1000s of records. AAA releases usually get a moderate amount of attention early then make money through a trickle of sales, most of which come from putting the record out on the merch desk at shows, bundled with a tshirt.

Then there's the problem of torrenting and illegal downloading. To be perfectly honest it's all about respect and you probably don't have enough of that. The only thing that stops most people from downloading a record is if the person who's put it out has a big enough reputation to justify the risk of expense. Someone like Devin Townsend for instance.

So here's the skinny:
1 - Without playing shows you're probably not going to get noticed. You'll get no direct sales without playing shows.

2 - If you somehow can get noticed enough, most of the people who hear about you are going to steal your record to test you out.

3 - Even if most people don't steal your record you won't have a stayers reputation, because you need to travel, play and work constantly for that to exist. People will stop talking about your record about a month after it hits if you're very lucky to last that long.

I promise that I'm not just being an ass for no reason here. I've being playing in metal bands for a decade so this is just me speaking from experience. There's cats on here who've been doing it for much longer who will probably tell you similar things.

I've had similar bright ideas over my time, and I'll admit having full access to the power of the internet is exciting. I'm not even telling you not to try it, in fact I would encourage you to go as hard at this as you can at both the DIY and the studio angle. You just need to realise that with metal originals you'll probably only make a profit when you hit a good crowd one night with a well played gig, and manage to flog a couple of shirts at the merch desk.
 

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