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Thinking about giving up (rythm issues)

#21
My suggestion:

Get a copy of Victor Wooten's Groove Workshop DVD. He deals with rhythm in a conceptually different way, which might be just the key to unlock it for you.

(There's an interesting saying in his book and in this DVD: don't try hard--try easy. From your posts, it sounds as if you've been trying very hard, and it hasn't been working.)
 
#23
yes i have been there. i think maybe you are just biting off more than you can chew. practice the simplest things until you can play them perfectly to the metronome for several minutes with no mistakes or fluctuations, and it sounds pro when you listen back to it recorded. otherwise no need to move on to something more difficult. i am never convinced i know a part until i can play it perfectly and repeatedly and daydream about something totally different, because i dont need to concentrate on it any more, its become second nature.
 
#24
If all the regimented exercise is not working for you, take a break from it.

Play alone for while. Don't try to force anything. Just play a series of notes or chords and let your bodies own natural rhythm take over.

You might not have the same rhythm as other people, instead you have your own by which you should play. Once you discover become comfortable with your own natural rhythm, you can learn to manipulate it to fit into the requirements of group work.

lay down,
don't think about what you are doing,
and play until you feel the natural cycle of what you are doing.
 
#25
My advice (take it for what it is...)


STOP THINKING!

Grab your bass, close your eyes and just play. Dont think about anything, Timing, technique, patterns scales etc etc...

If your playing along with a song, just let it flow.
And if while your playing your telling yourself " Im not thinking about anything" , your still thinking... Quit!
 
#26
You may be overthinking it. Try loosening up.

I used to have a bagpipe student that couldn't even play an even scale. Then on tunes, it was a nightmare. I worked with him for a solid year with lots of different techniques, and there would be almost no improvement. When I just let him play a tune to the metronome a couple times over, I found that he was cyclically hitting on the tempo ever few measures. He had an inner ear problem and that likely contributed to the cyclical tempo.

Some people have it. I'd say that most people can keep some kind of beat. But there definitely are people out there that are tempo deficient, the same way someone can be tone deaf.
 
#27
makkE said:
Are you playing with people, or only alone?
Maybe it's time to just go out and do it ?

Maybe you are trying too hard? What happens if you totally forget about keeping time and focus on something else? Like listening to the song itsef, the singer, the feel of the strings under your fingers, or focusing on the meaning of the song?
Can you play it when you're (not too) drunk?

You might need to find out if your problem is a mental one (trying too hard, judging yourself too much) or if it's a real timing issue.

...
Click to expand...

This - especially the bold part - play with people.


My tip to you (along with finding some people to jam with regularly) - is to move when you play. Embrace the rhythm and let your body move to the music. You don't have to jump around - but you need to 'let go' mentally and let the rhythm manifest itself in you physically.

And by the way, you don't learn music separately on a per instrument basis. Rhythm is the same no matter what instrument you play so don't compartmentalize it by instrument (piano, drums, bass - they all use rhythm exactly the same way). And even at piano, where you are sitting, you should be moving when you play. If you are not, you are stifling the rhythm and it's going to come out of you in a clumsy way because of that.

If you have a history with dance or you personally like to dance, think about how you'd dance to a song and do THAT in your head (not count) and reflect it in the way you move.

If you don't have a history with or a personal affinity to dance, watch some people who do and see how they move - and how the music makes them move. Rhythmic music is supposed to make you want to move.

The more you are able to channel the music out of your head through your body, the more connected to the rhythm you'll be.
 
#28
Duck Dunn would say...

"LEARN TO DANCE BEFORE TAKING UP THE BASS"

infact, my first teacher encouraged me to keep time with my body. a liitle two-step, if you will. gl.


EDIT:
My tip to you (along with finding some people to jam with regularly) - is to move when you play. Embrace the rhythm and let your body move to the music. You don't have to jump around - but you need to 'let go' mentally and let the rhythm manifest itself in you physically.
Click to expand...

beat me to it! ;)
 
#31
Another vote for "don't give up"! Just keep playing, everything will improve with time. I also second the ideas of clapping or drum exercises, and just constantly use your internal clock- while driving along with the radio, at concerts, wherever, focus on the groove and keeping time.
 
#33
Etienned said:
I'm maybe looking for tips or encouragement, but I also wish to vent a bit.

I've been taking private lessons (for 2 years), read alot here, practice at least 5 times a week (1 hour and more), got a metronome, drum machine software, books filled with timing exercises... and yet I still feel like I cannot hold rythm like a bassist should.

I'm struggling to either count or ''feel'' the rythm. Even simple 3/4 (such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzj8U_TSBzg&feature=related) are bringing me to the border of despair. And I don't even want to talk about 16th or 12/8 (which ends up sounding like a sloppy and inconsistent swing). I practice at 60bpm and up, but listening to a recording of myself is saddening.

Lessons are costly and I'm wondering if I'm simply wasting my time and money by continuing since I'm probably rythmically (sp?) challenged (aka tempo-handicaped).

Anyone been there ?
Click to expand...
Maybe you have gone as far as you can go by yourself? Find a band, create a jam session, recruit other music students from your music school, better yet, find an Ensemble Lesson.

After 2 years, you may need to be making music with other players to move forward. The role of the bass is playing rhythm. Play-a-long CDs, Band in a Box ... are very demanding & they never, ever, make a mistake! You either got it right or have to catch up. In a band, each player accommodates mistakes by others & makes them sound like music. Get into a group, let the music come out, be less critical of errors & watch your ability grow.

It's music. Nobody is going to get hurt. 8-)
 
#34
Been there recently actually. I hit a massive wall when I started playing with old blues veterans who kept telling me I had no groove and played too straight.

They got me to start keeping time with two feet instead of just one. While playing, many, if not most musicians keep time by tapping a foot. This can lead some of us to think of music as bouncing up and down in place, so to speak. It also gives every count the same value.

Now try keeping time by taping both feet alternatively. 1-left foot, 2-right foot, 3-left foot, 4-right foot. Sway your whole body as you do this. Try bringing your body down on the counts then try using the counts to swing your body towards the next count. See which feels best for the feel of the song you're playing. If the tempo is too high, try taping every second note, or every 4rth note.

This is very much like dancing, which many have suggested here already. The effect is that different notes now have different values.
Instead of
count-count-count-count-count-count-count-count...
you now have
left count - right count - left count - right count...

Even just saying it out loud you should notice a difference in swing and groove. It's much more musical. Now what I did was take it one step further and did this while listening to music. I bought a bunch of music off of iTunes. I got me some Sly and the Family Stone, Parliament, a live James Browns album with the JBs backing him, some Muddy Waters, Howling Wolf, Freddy King... a bunch of music I aspired to sound like. While listening to it all I always keep time with a side to side motion. I realized how awkward and choppy my feel for music was. I learnt to "feel" the groove and developed a deeper appreciation for the music I already loved. Needless to say, this affected my playing quite a bit.

I still don't sound like Larry Graham, but at least I broke the "whitey" curse. Well I started to anyway. Just don't give up. There's not enough bass players in the world, but there's more than enough quitters. If you stop digging, you'll never know how close you were to hitting gold. Every knows there's nothing more rewarding than overcoming a hurdle that seemed impossible to overcome.
 
#38
I'm self-taught and I had a bit of trouble with 6/8 when I started playing with a band so I asked my drummer to show me how to play a basic 6/8 on drums. After having about 10 minutes practice I never had any problems with it again, in fact, I think I prefer playing in 6/8 now.
 
#39
Bassamatic said:
Rhythm IS an aptitude that we can be high or low in, so it IS possible for it to be naturally difficult for you.

However, you mentioned your piano - can you play piano to your satisfaction? All music requires rhythm, so if you can do one, you should be able to do the other.
Click to expand...

bingo! this is so true ....i see it in my students, i've had my own struggles over 25 years with rushing....i've noticed my hobbiest musical family (immediate) members have particularly poor sense of time ....for what ever reason there is something genetic about timing!

good post man ...it is so true!
 
#40
Rhythm exists all around us and we all have it whether we can demonstrate it on demand or not. Your heartbeat and breathing are rhythmic. When you walk, unless you have a physical disability that precludes it, you do so in a very steady rhythm. When you speak, you speak rhythmically. It's everywhere and you execute it flawlessly - unconsciously.

The problem crops up when you start trying to think about it. That's when everything goes out of whack. Things you normally do without thought suddenly become super-complicated constructs that you feel like you cannot do and you get balled up in THAT notion.

I can't just tell you not to think about it. If it were that easy we'd all be rhythmic monsters and it's very true that we all are not - but it's not because we "don't have it" as some may suggest, it's because we've got it slotted in a 'special place' that it really doesn't belong.

I think one of the best ways to practice executing conscious rhythm is when you walk. Step, step, step, step... there's your natural metronome... step, step, step, step... Now simply pat your side in between steps... There's your off-beats... When you walk up some flights of stairs pat the railing twice between steps and you'll pull off perfect triplets... Don't just think of rhythm as something you have to demonstrate when playing an instrument. It's sewn into nature.

If you really want lessons that will teach your whole body rhythm, take tap dancing lessons.
 

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