Double Bass This Cheap Used Bass, or Something Else?

[Single Coil]

I’ve been playing electric for almost forty years, and have occasionally played upright on borrowed instruments through those years. I am now considering buying my first upright. I am currently borrowing a 1952 Kay M-1, with the option to buy. The asking price is under $1000. However, this bass is tired. Also, I’m not crazy about the action or the tone.

My question is this: as a beginner on the DB, should I go with this bass to learn on, or would I be better off spending a bit more? My budget is around $2500.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

That’s a good price for a Kay unless it needs a lot of work. The necks tend to bow forward and a thicker fingerboard is the fix.
A Shen SB88 laminate is below your budget and likely better than the Kay without a lot of work. Not much else I’d recommend in that range.

 

[Rod Sroufe]

The key to learning any instrument including the Double Bass is to have an instrument that will inspire you to continue your desire to learn and play. You already mention issues with this instrument. Some of the issues can probably be addressed/improved by a quality luthier for some cost on top of the purchase. The action issue for example should be addressed for sure.

The tone concern you have may be beyond the capability of this instrument. However this may be addressed by string change and or sound post adjustments. It does look to have a solid bridge etc. to work with but tone can very widely between instruments even within the Kay family.

Tone being good or not is largely personal and subjective. It’s best to try other instruments in your price point to get a feel for what instruments in that range are capable of. This is easier said than done of course. If possible, a trip to a bass shop with this instrument in hand would be perfect to compare and explore possibilities with a luthier.

knowing what I know now, I’d suggest you do some shopping since you have some price range to work with on top of the asking price of this instrument.

 

[Steven Ayres]

Be aware that buying any upright bass off the rack is likely to entail some additional setup cost. With a good setup this Kay could be all you need. (Setup won't fix the veneer losses, of course.)

Can you share the serial number? I'll get it registered.

 

[nealw]

String choice and setup can make HUGE differences in sound and playability. As a new player, you probably don't know what strings you like yet, but when you find them, the difference can be night and day. If you can play different basses with different strings, do so. When you like someone's tone, find out what strings they use. I wouldn't give up on a deal like that on the Kay until you know what you like. Take it to a luthier, get it checked out and get a setup done.

 

[Francois Blais]

The strings on the bass are D'Addario Helicores.
The silk at the tailpiece is green, right?
In that case, they're the Hybrid variety.
If the silk is navy blue, they're Orchestrals.
Depending on their age, they may be dead.

 

[Robert Strickland]

That's a good price for a Kay. I would have a Luthier examine it to tell you what needs to be done to get it in playing shape for your preference. If it's too much, I totally agree with the entry level Shen as an excellent choice for the money.

 

[Anne Millington]

If you always play amplified, you might want to make sure your pickup is working optimally and placed properly, to say nothing of the rest of the chain. You might really like that Kay once you get it checked out. Looks aren't everything.

 

[Single Coil]

The strings on the bass are D'Addario Helicores.
The silk at the tailpiece is green, right?
In that case, they're the Hybrid variety.
If the silk is navy blue, they're Orchestrals.
Depending on their age, they may be dead.

The silks are green. The more I read, the more I learn. Thanks, this is a whole new ballgame for me.

 

[John Chambliss]

I would start with a teacher who could travel with you to audition other basses. I have a Kay, and the price is good, but I would lean toward a Shen or something comparable in starting out. Looks like you gig in IL - Chicago is a great place to audition upright basses. There are also several double bass players on TB who live in Chicago and might be willing to meet you at a music store for a few bucks.

 

[Ed S]

You don't say what sort of music you want play. If just thumping some country/rock, this could well suit you. If you want to bow classical, not so much.

Thump along the edges to see if there are seam separations. Is the top deformed? Are there cracks - repaired or not - in the top/bottom? Has the neck been repaired? Is the neck straight? How does the fingerboard look? Do you like the FEEL of the neck (Kays tend towards the thin)?

If positive answers to all of the above, and the price is more under $1k than $999.99, this could be a fine bass. Setup, including strings, could easily run around $500.

But quite a few things in your rather brief post strongly point to you not being in love w/ this particular bass, which pretty strongly supports looking elsewhere. Last thing you want is to invest $1-1.5k into a big piece of furniture that you don't like or want, and then have to get rid of.

Like Greg says, if you spend another grand to get a Shen, you will end up with a more solid tool. And looks ARE important. Do you dig a beat up warhorse, or do you want something new and shiny?

Finally, any general idea of where you are at?

 

[Single Coil]

I think my first step should be a setup on the Kay, as was suggested. I’ve been reading about string height, and I then measured the string height on the Kay.

It varies between 14 - 15 mm at the end of the fingerboard. Based on what I’ve read, this is high, especially for a beginner. Comfort is one of my top priorities with my electrics.

Anyone have any suggestions for luthiers in Chicago or Indy?

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Ask to borrow the bass for two weeks on trial and offer a refundable cash deposit, then bring it to A440 Violins in Chicago for an assessment. If the bass is healthy and needs no major work, and you decide after a good setup that it’s not for you, sell it for a $1,000 profit.

 

[Single Coil]

You don't say what sort of music you want play. If just thumping some country/rock, this could well suit you. If you want to bow classical, not so much.

Thump along the edges to see if there are seam separations. Is the top deformed? Are there cracks - repaired or not - in the top/bottom? Has the neck been repaired? Is the neck straight? How does the fingerboard look? Do you like the FEEL of the neck (Kays tend towards the thin)?

If positive answers to all of the above, and the price is more under $1k than $999.99, this could be a fine bass. Setup, including strings, could easily run around $500.

But quite a few things in your rather brief post strongly point to you not being in love w/ this particular bass, which pretty strongly supports looking elsewhere. Last thing you want is to invest $1-1.5k into a big piece of furniture that you don't like or want, and then have to get rid of.

Like Greg says, if you spend another grand to get a Shen, you will end up with a more solid tool. And looks ARE important. Do you dig a beat up warhorse, or do you want something new and shiny?

Finally, any general idea of where you are at?

My immediate gigging applications will be thumping country/rock, but I love classical as well. I’m only planning to play classical at home, for my own enjoyment. I’ve also played several theater gigs on electric and would like to expand those capabilities with an upright.

There are no cracks in the top or bottom, the neck appears straight (albeit with high action), the fingerboard looks good, and I will prefer a thinner neck.

I’m located in central Illinois.

 

[Ed S]

Not sure if Mark Sonksen does setups. I'm a big fan of the folk at Seman's up in Skokie.

 

[Ed S]

Not sure if Mark Sonksen does setups.

Looking at his website, he clearly does. You'll be able to play other basses - including Kays - at Sonksen's, a440, or Seman's.

 

[John Chambliss]

A Kay typically has a thin/narrow neck for a double bass. Thicker necks are often easier to play because they encourage you to use arm weight rather than squeezing with your thumb to play/stop a note on a given string.

 

[Steven Ayres]

Anyone have any suggestions for luthiers in Chicago or Indy?

I can also recommend Mark Sonksen as a skilled luthier, fully Kay-aware, and a good, honest guy to work with.

On the question of neck thickness, first, Kay basses vary more than a lot of people think in that respect, though they are generally not as deep as more expensive basses. Second, I'd recommend holding off on deciding what you prefer in that respect, stay open and play other basses to learn about the range and what works better for you. There's a sort of marketed prejudice among electric players that thin necks are easier to play, and I don't find that to be true for me with guitars either.

 

[RSBBass]

I don't think you should pay for a setup on a bass you don't own, unless as a thanks to the person who loaned it to you.

It is easy to pay attention to this being a very good price for a Kay in decent condition. But we don't know if it is. At a minimum, get it checked out be a good bass repair tech and talk with them about what it would take to make it what you want. There is a lot of mystique around Kay's, because they have been used by a lot of great bass players, mostly because that was what they could get at the time. Be aware that even fixed up you will have 50+ year old bass (at a minimum) with known issues, such as a poor neck joint and thin neck.

It may be that you could get this bass fixed up and flip it. Is that what you are looking for, or are you looking for a bass to play.

You should try some other basses in your range. My Shen SB80 has served me well in the eleven years I have had it, needing no work beyond the initial setup.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I'm not a fan of Kay basses in stock form for various reasons. My main issue is the neck and fingerboard. The neck is thin and the fingerboard is usually thin and it’s arching flat. The thinness contributes to warping which puts a lot of scoop in the board in lower positions. Most older Kays I’ve seen have this problem. Arching causes the D and A strings to be higher off the board than normal when the bridge is properly arched for bowing. If the string heights are 5,6,7 and 9 (G-E) the middle strings will be very difficult to bow.
For these reasons, I believe most Kays benefit from a new fingerboard, and tapered shim which raises projection for a higher bridge and also adds thickness to the neck. Not cheap, but then you have some Kay mojo if that’s important to you. Still, my Kay sits as I gig with a Shen.