Double Bass This Gary Karr stuff is new to me

[lurk]

This came across my phone, and it's from a few years ago, but it's new to me.
https://www.thestrad.com/playing-hub/opinion-gary-karr-on-bass-ic-misunderstandings/16519.article

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Karr always tells it like it is

 

[David Potts]

Having endured the wrath and death stare of a well known Dutch conductor for not using enough bow on the bottom string I quite agree with Gary Karr in the above Strad article. I feel that the weight of the E string dictates the use of the bow, not the other way around. The open E string vibrates at about 41.7 times per second and the G about 50. Whether notes are fast or slow, long or short, slurred or separate the E string notes need their own care. Knut Guettler did a lot of study of string movement under the bow and plucked. He was able to show me on his computer that the plucked string takes 10 cycles to reach its maximum tone. My interpretation of this is that rapid 16th note passages on the E string never produce a full sound with clean articulation because the string can't catch up between the bow movements. The conductors see the bow movements and hear some mechanics and smile. IMO the storm passage in Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is a great demonstration of a sound and visual effect, not notes to be articulated.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I remember an episode from years ago when a conductor was berating the bass section for "not enough bow". Our principal replied with "do you want music or theater?".

 

[Mark_T]

I similarly find it frustrating when composers attempt to make a "big finish" by assigning the basses tremolo. The fact is, tremolo is inevitably going to be quieter than just a long note, but it looks cooler so people do it. It might work on higher stringed instruments but it doesn't work on the bass.

 

[ILIA]

Most conductors are ignorant about loudness, acoustics, & bow speed, but most of the audience, board members, and administrators are probably just as bad or worse. They all hear with their eyes. The conductor is just giving the audience, board members, and administrators a way to hear with their eyes, because they can't really evaluate music with their ears. That's why we still hear the same old tired "use more bow" comment. (Oh, and also because the same dumb idea is taught in education schools, to k-12 string teachers.) And, that's why I'll move around too much, when conductors ask for "louder." Conductors don't want to be taught by bass players, about bow speed on the bass. So, just give the conductor the visuals that they want to make them think you're playing louder by moving the rest of your body in a more energetic way, pick up your paycheck, go home, and cash your check the next morning before it bounces. It's why some bass players play standing up, in orchestra. There are still enough dumb conductors around who think that the better bassists playing standing. And, of course, the C-extension . . . even if you don't use it on the rep on a gig, if the conductor sees the C extension, they think the bassist is a serious player. Most conductors are dumb, but bassists like Karr shouldn't try to "educate" them. They are too arrogant to be educated (partly why many of them are dumb--arrogance hinders the ability to learn). Just give them the visuals.

I got the above idea from a jazz electric bassist, actually. An idiot jazz band director wanted more bass, so the bassist turned around to the amplifier, pretended to turn up the volume knob, then moved around energetically. bobbing his head, etc. It worked. The director thought the bass was louder and the balance was fine.

 

[Mark_T]

I'm not a professional but I'm not so pessimistic about conductors, I guess. Most of the conductors I work with are fairly intelligent and personable and are willing to listen, or at least, it's easy enough to go along with things, at least in the spirit if not the letter of their requests.

But I also try to remember that music is a performance, and it's okay to let a little theater leak in as long as it's not seriously harming things. I hate those loud tremolo endings (as I mentioned before) but I realized that in a lot of the places they show up, the rest of the orchestra can manage the "be really loud" part for me, so I just try to make it look good without getting too tense. I'm afraid if I tighten up on those tremolos, I'll drop my bow.

 

[Bruce Calin]

The conductor of the local community orchestra is also an excellent tuba player which gives an unusual and much more knowledgeable and understanding perspective on the lower register in general.

 

[Lee Moses]

I got the above idea from a jazz electric bassist, actually. An idiot jazz band director wanted more bass, so the bassist turned around to the amplifier, pretended to turn up the volume knob, then moved around energetically. bobbing his head, etc. It worked. The director thought the bass was louder and the balance was fine.

I've never met a bassist who refused to turn up the volume on the amplifier when asked. It's like telling an eager dog, "Sic 'em!" But it's not an option in most orchestral settings.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Having endured the wrath and death stare of a well known Dutch conductor…

Awesome David!

As an orchestra bass player, if you have not had the conductors ‘death stare’, perhaps you have not been to enough rehearsals. It will come. So too are acidic comments like ‘I’m looking at YOU’.

In the back of my mind is a thread on conductor anecdotes

 

[ILIA]

I've never met a bassist who refused to turn up the volume on the amplifier when asked. It's like telling an eager dog, "Sic 'em!" But it's not an option in most orchestral settings.

I have. Good jazz bassists (and the ones who want to keep their calendars full) won't engage in loudness wars with drummers and trumpet players and guitarists who don't want to play dynamics and internally balance, especially if the dB is approaching or already in an unhealthy range. It's up to a director, if the band is stuck with a drummer and a trumpet section and a guitarist who only play f and ff, to get them to balance, rather than telling the bass player to turn up. Yeah, there are bassists that will gleefully turn it up if asked. Then there are the ones that work steady . . . .

 

[lurk]

I have. Good jazz bassists (and the ones who want to keep their calendars full) won't engage in loudness wars with drummers and trumpet players and guitarists who don't want to play dynamics and internally balance, especially if the dB is approaching or already in an unhealthy range. It's up to a director, if the band is stuck with a drummer and a trumpet section and a guitarist who only play f and ff, to get them to balance, rather than telling the bass player to turn up. Yeah, there are bassists that will gleefully turn it up if asked. Then there are the ones that work steady . . . .

On almost every gig I do I am asked to turn up, which I comply with in tiny increments. I want the other players to listen to and listen for me, and cranking my amp doesn't help. I don't know if he still does it, but Wynton used to insist that his bassists play acoustically and I think that the real motive there was to make the band listen to and listen for the bass, not to make the bass softer.

 

[ILIA]

On almost every gig I do I am asked to turn up, which I comply with in tiny increments. I want the other players to listen to and listen for me, and cranking my amp doesn't help. I don't know if he still does it, but Wynton used to insist that his bassists play acoustically and I think that the real motive there was to make the band listen to and listen for the bass, not to make the bass softer.

That's one of the tricks of a good director: instead of telling an instrument or instrument group to play louder or softer like an audio engineer would mix a recording session, the director tells the instruments that are playing too loud, to listen to the instrument that should be more prominent in the overall balance. This also helps with the "togetherness" of the ensemble.

 

[Paps]

Awesome David!

As an orchestra bass player, if you have not had the conductors ‘death stare’, perhaps you have not been to enough rehearsals. It will come. So too are acidic comments like ‘I’m looking at YOU’.

In the back of my mind is a thread on conductor anecdotes

My teacher takes no crap from conductors! His take is that if a conductor has nothing to say, they'll pick on the basses, often without any real basis.
(The rest of the orchestra dont notice)