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This is karaoke, isn't it?

#81
I'm happy the false equivalencies have been pointed out.

I play upright and can't look at fret markers

Tom Petty glancing on the floor is not the same as flipping through an ipad on every song in a set.

I will say that engaging the audience is job #1 - there are exceptions to that as well. i.e. pit band, corporate gigs, etc.

I have all my song parts and lyrics memorized for a 35-son 3-4 hour show. We do add songs frequently and I'll have a "cheat sheet" on the floor as a reminder. Hopefully after a couple gigs, it's gone.

Our goal as a band is to look and sound professional. This makes a band look unprofessional and like mentioned above, "one less band to go out and see"
 
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#84
gln1955 said:
You know what's worse than having an iPad for the singer? Having the singer forget the lyrics and try to fumble through the rest of the song. Yeah, they shouldn't be reading every word but a safety net is not a bad thing.
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you know whats even better..... singers that do their homework. is the whole band reading charts? anyone can screw up. you either know your stuff or you dont. and you either know how to handle flubs onstage or you dont.
 
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#86
I agree with @Ancientangler it's a bit tacky.
If it was a sub or you had very little time to get everything together then it's fine.
But the same band playing the same songs for a year? The singer should know the words.
Or know the words well enough. A cheat sheet is fine. Reading every line of every song is not.
And honestly I would rather see a singer engaged with the audience make a few mistakes than a singer get everything right but looking at the lyrics the whole time.
 
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#88
bbao said:
...but we should all remember that most musicians have day jobs.
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How did day jobs prevent people learning the material before the tablet crutch epidemic?

There is no explanation or justification that excuses not being able to do the job properly. I am still shocked at how many people are acting as if looking like a bunch of hacks is acceptable.

No thanks. I have WAY more respect for myself, my band, and music in general, to show up needing a tablet in my face.

Other than the story of the singer recovering from stroke, all of the excuses I see here are weak at best.

Learn the freaking songs or stay in your basement. You diminish all of us.
 
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#90
Earlier last year, I was doing an '80s new wave thing with myself on bass/vocals, also had guitar/vocals and keys/vocals doing inxs, the fixx, bowie, peter Gabriel, etc; the more 80s rock stuff.

Lost our drummer, so was playing to backing drum tracks. Sounded damn close to the original song, but it was wearing on me having to play the songs the same way every time. Couldn't extend the solo part, or lengthen the intro, or anything like that.

Don't get me wrong, it was a lot of fun for a while. But it was karaoke. And yes, I too had a binder with lyrics when I needed them. Depended on the song.
 
#92
Lowandfat said:
Someone please tell me, when exactly did musicians become so musically lazy/half-butted?

How is "should the singer learn the songs" even a question? That's a real question.

If you don't respect the gig/process/music enough to bother to learn the material, I don't even know what to say.
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There was a time when I agreed with you.

But the vast majority of people doing this nowadays are not serious musicians; they are hobbyists who dabble in music and they might gig once or twice a month. They spend their days doing other things to bring home a paycheck and we are lucky if they even think about music between shows or rehearsals.

After five years struggling to find a situation that's comfortable for me where everyone works as hard as I'd like them to and brings their A game at all time, where everyone understand how to hold an efficient rehearsal that isn't a waste of everyone's time, where everyone respects the time commitments made to the band by others, etc., etc., I have thrown in the towel.

Some folks are playing at a level where they're making enough scratch off of this for the time put into memorization to be worth what you get out of it. But most just aren't, and they don't care, and it's easy to say they shouldn't be out there on stages if that's the case, but there they are, anyway.

I'm not going to find my unicorn band. I'm just not. I can find talented people, but they're all in this same boat. I'm not even finding a unicorn player here or there. And the other thing that happens is that when I spend countless hours working up repertoire only to arrive at a gig or a rehearsal to find the others aren't prepared, I begin to doubt my own sanity in caring more than they do. Why should I put two hours a day into personal practice if I'm the only one who cares? So it's a bit contagious.

Sorry, that's all I've got. I honestly don't care anymore if my LS reads his lyrics off a phone attached to his mic stand. Dude has a Ph.D in psychology and spends his days doing way more important things. But he sings like an angel with perfect pitch. That is just how it is.
 
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#94
To the topic, which isn't ipads, I'll say this. Backing tracks are a thing. I've seen lots of artists use them. To me they work better as adjuncts to an otherwise full band - a friend of mine had a tribute act for a famous band and he uses backing tracks for his keyboard parts because good keys players are scarce around here. The presentation is four people on the stage and you have to stop and think "where's that keyboard coming from" before you realize they're using backing tracks in lieu of a fifth player.

The more dependent you are on them, the less "live feel" you get, and that's really what we're talking about here, isn't it? But I've seen big acts incorporate tracks pretty seamlessly, because big acts play well enough that "live feel" doesn't actually mean sloppy.

Joe Jackson has a schtick where he starts and ends a show with tracks as the band walks on and off the stage, and you can't tell where the musicians start and stop their live playing. Joe's good at making a subtle point. It's all magic, sleight of hand, entertainment. Most of us have no idea what's really happening on a stage like that.

I don't have a problem with them. I have gone through the wringer working with obstinate people, people who don't practice, people who want to fight about everything in rehearsals, etc. Backing tracks don't bring drama, except for here. But the tradeoff, as I said, is live feel.
 
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#95
Sure, if the pay is $100 then the player gets to decide how much of their percieved talent you get.
Try that with a horn player and they either aren't straight out interested or they want material that once charted, they'll be able to use elsewhere....or charge you for it.
Top

Its enough to weed out 'idiots' or 'chancers' and if you find top level players local, and the definition of local is likely they have a music school teaching gig or somesuch as they are too tired, rather than not capable, of chasing bigger money gigs with travel and unsocial involved, you are doing ok.

But then they will be around 50 and grumpty gits...
Top young players...might be the same sort of level and are chasing gigs all over and never available...until they slow down.
The pool isn't that big so you choose your compromises..
 
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#96
LBS-bass said:
They didn't. It was paper notebooks before those devices came out, which looks even worse.
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I very, very, rarely saw any written material in front of a club band before the tablet plague, and it always looks low rent. Musicians and bands used to have to be able to do the whole job competently to get gigs. That benchmark has apparently been removed.

If I'm given a choice between a low discreetly-angled music stand, or a tablet clipped to the vocal mic in the singers face, I'll take the music stand every time. And I'll also take a ride to another venue.
 
#97
Lowandfat said:
I very, very, rarely saw any written material in front of a club band before the tablet plague, and it always looks low rent. Musicians and bands used to have to be able to do the whole job competently to get gigs.
Click to expand...

Back in the day I was 100% all in on this but I was also working in music full-time and most of the players I knew on the circuit were, too. I always thought music stands on stage were tacky. But I'm starting to see that times have changed and perhaps I have not changed with them as much as I could.
 
#98
Fair enough, but "times have changed" doesn't have to mean a step backwards. "Good enough" is never really good enough. I don't take gigs with singers who use harmonizer pedals, either. Unless for creative effect (Perry, Maynard et al), and not just because nobody else in the band can sing. I have gotten a ton of gigs simply because I took singing seriously and worked my butt off learning parts. My point remains that I now feel like the exception instead of what should be the norm.
 
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#99
Lowandfat said:
Fair enough, but "times have changed" doesn't have to mean a step backwards. "Good enough" is never really good enough. I don't take gigs with singers who use harmonizer pedals, either. Unless for creative effect (Perry, Maynard et al), and not just because nobody else in the band can sing. I have gotten a ton of gigs simply because I took singing seriously and worked my butt off learning parts. My point remains that I now feel like the exception instead of what should be the norm.
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Well, I agree with you, but it's kind of frustrating and a losing proposition to expect the world to be the way it isn't, which is pretty much all I'm saying. For me it appears my choices are to accept the world as it is or become increasingly frustrated and disgruntled. I may ultimately decide my time in music is at an end, but it will be due to a combination of things, of which musicians not having the time to commit to memorizing parts is but one small part.
 
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#100
I've seen a lot of shows (especially in the jazz world) where there were stands on stage, but the musicians absolutely killed it AND kept a clear connection with the audience. I've seen shows where there were no stands on stage, or other external cues, and the musicians spent the evenings looking at their shoes or instruments, like the audience was an afterthought.

Which would YOU rather see?
 

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