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This sounds like he just wants clicks.
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
Berlin seems to get almost no gigs or teaching gigs - he's pretty toxic and puts out some serious divorced dad vibes. He's an amazing player, but he is so rigid on so many things and views things in absolutes, it makes him hard to take seriously sometimes.
In the broadest sense he's right.
You really focused way to much on minute detail. Did McCartney listen to jazz? I dont know. Was he directly inspired by jazz? Not that Ive ever really heard of. He mentions Jamerson as probably his biggest influence, so sure some jazz by osmosis.
Was this really the big point of what he was saying? Not by a long shot.
He's also in his 70s. What makes you think he's actively looking for gigs? Do you really expect him to be on the road grinding it out every night?
Gee whizz... A great player with strong controversial opinions. What a concept!
Which flavor of jazz should I have been listening to while I was learning "I saw her standing there "...
Dixieland? Big band swing? Be bop? Fusion? All of the above?
I agree with everything Jeff and Carol Kaye says...even when I don't.
Which flavor of jazz should I have been listening to while I was learning "I saw her standing there "...
Dixieland? Big band swing? Be bop? Fusion? All of the above?
I agree with everything Jeff and Carol Kaye says...even when I don't.
I get it:
The culture used to encourage explorers.
Now it's churns out passengers.
The original innovators inspired, but for a multitude of reasons, we've arrived at a place where imitation, and convenience have eschewed authenticity - which has stymied both the individual, and the art form.
The culture used to encourage explorers.
Now it's churns out passengers.
The original innovators inspired, but for a multitude of reasons, we've arrived at a place where imitation, and convenience have eschewed authenticity - which has stymied both the individual, and the art form.
Plenty of guys his age still gig regularly. They just haven't alienated themselves like he has.
I have been a Jeff Berlin fan for 45 years. My issue is that he seems to have backed away from the importance of good instruction. Great players will figure it out with or without a teacher. Most of us are not great and instruction makes a huge difference for less than stellar players.
Berlin gigged a lot as a younger. Yes hired him to sub for Chris Squire for a series of gigs.
Jeff Berlin is full of experience, talent, and wisdom. He’s played on dozens of albums and with a litany of very heavy players.
He just has trouble expressing himself without coming off as judgmental. That is his thing. I’m guessing, as successful as he has been, he might have been much more so if he had a better sense of self-awareness and/or was willing to tailor his message to the custom of the audience.
He just has trouble expressing himself without coming off as judgmental. That is his thing. I’m guessing, as successful as he has been, he might have been much more so if he had a better sense of self-awareness and/or was willing to tailor his message to the custom of the audience.
The metronome thing is overblown, It's like saying I have to have training wheels even though I have been riding the bike, He use to make this demo where he would ask people to sing a groove and it's not a simple groove either and he points out how easy it is easy for anyone to be in time. And then he ask a volunteers to play it on the bass and then he points out that the bass becomes an impediment of what's in you head already and what comes out in the amp and he points not the melodic mistake but more the rhythmic mistake. So the goal is to make the bass disappear . How many here do creative things with the metronnome like have a 3 beat byt play 4 against it, place the metronome on the subdivision of a beat like the Ah in one-and-ah . If it is just to keep you in check like the rails on a bowling lane then you are better off without it --
That is why even though it is expensive, I use Charlie Hunters WheelHouse app, because, the grooves are played by real drummers and you can only adjust the bpm for the different grooves so much because in real playing , some styles and gtoove sound bad outside certain tempo ranges. There is some variation and to me that is what makes it danceable. I like Native instrument drummer programs because you can adjust swing and random variation (Logic Garage band does it but not as realistic as Native Instruments -- but the best really so far is the WheelHouse app for me. The best thing though is playing with a drummer. Find a partner that also needs to hone their drum skills and you can both benefit from it.
That is why even though it is expensive, I use Charlie Hunters WheelHouse app, because, the grooves are played by real drummers and you can only adjust the bpm for the different grooves so much because in real playing , some styles and gtoove sound bad outside certain tempo ranges. There is some variation and to me that is what makes it danceable. I like Native instrument drummer programs because you can adjust swing and random variation (Logic Garage band does it but not as realistic as Native Instruments -- but the best really so far is the WheelHouse app for me. The best thing though is playing with a drummer. Find a partner that also needs to hone their drum skills and you can both benefit from it.
I know you have deep wisdom and not just a collection of funny pics and emojis. Thanks for this Mr. BebopI get what he is saying. In the case for instance of McCartney, while he had listen to the popular music of the day that his parents listened to, his main influence at the time for his musical playing was American Music coming across the pond. Blues, Rock as well as Skiffle, which was an American product before being adopted by his countrymen.
True about Larry getting his start in his mom’s organ group. John Paul Jones was a big session man and multi-instrumentalist but he didn't develop his musical chops for session work just to play rock. But that is not what he is talking about.
I believe he is talking about the last 40 years or so of rock bass playing where you didn't see that much previous music background in rock bass players or rock players in general. There may be a few but the vast majority of players learned their craft as he described, by listening to rock records and learning like that. Not learning Jazz at the knee of a teacher or at a music school then going into rock as a preference. Now we see this, people enlisting a teacher or going to a music school to learn rock.
Which this is a turnaround in his thinking somewhat. His view as I understood it was, to be a full-rounded professional musician you should train like anyone who wants to be a professional at anything, a doctor, an electrician, a teacher. These professions took extended education to become a professional. And he had touted this view to almost a fault, because in his world at one time, this was true. Now he realizes after fighting with weekend warriors that they consider themselves professional musicians because they got paid for their weekend warrior gigs without the formal education he was promoting was needed to be considered by him or any other professional studio musician to make one be at that professional level, like a doctor, an electrician, a teacher.
He is now saying as the reality of it has hit home for him. Those rockers work with what education they have, which was many developed from listen to records and not from going to MIT or Juilliard. In fact it seems he is saying that would be a waste of money if that is what you want to do, play rock.
Still if one wants to be a better player and not lean on their own understanding, further assistance is needed, a teacher, a course, a school is needed to move forward. You can’t learn what you do not know, on your own.
PS I don't know whether this helps to understand where he is coming from but, Jeff was a child violin prodigy, studying from 5 to 15 before he jumped on that bass. He switched to bass after seeing The Beatles. Then he went to Berkley to study bass. So music education was a big part of his upbringing.
Yes.
To my point above though, Berlin presents those concepts abrasively.
In my view, it’s not the responsibility of the listener to separate the concept from the presentation style. It’s the responsibility of the presenter to make the content palatable to the listener. Berlin either does not agree with this or the distinction has not occurred to him.
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I remember reading about Stuart Zender. He started playing bass in his teens and before long he could all of the bass parts on Weather Report albums. He then went on to record three awesome albums for Jamiroquai. To refer to someone else posted, sometimes a really gifted person does really appreciate how easily something comes to him or her. It is sort of like the stories of great athletes not truly appreciating how hard it is for those with less ability.
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Jeff started out this recent journey rather interestingly and on topic but has since strayed far from functional advice and down into his own insanity.
Far be it for me to tell anyone to shut up and play but at times someone must.
Far be it for me to tell anyone to shut up and play but at times someone must.
I've been playing sem-pro, with a few breaks, since 1966. It never occurred to me to model my playing on anybody. I just listened to records and did my best to mimic the bass lines. I took a theory course in 1968, but that all went out the window when I started playing rock and r&b, because if there were bass charts for the Stones or Mitch Ryder, I never saw them. Of course, here I am, 60 years later, and learning jazz standards from chord charts and tabs. I am, I admit, grateful for whoever it was that taught me all the modes--I'd be totally lost without that knowledge. Ya never know, ya know?
First your whole post was spot on;
Back in 1974 this was me [part of vast majority]; I went to one Bass lesson instructor gave me small beginners book had some theory, scales etc. told me to learn 2 pages and come back next week. I learned whole book and he admonished me saying I need to go slow and follow his instructions
Never went back for more 'lessons' I wanted to learn to play songs and get on stage with my Band ASAP;
I did go back 6 months later to Store to try some Basses and he and owner watched me play and were shocked and perplexed when I told them I learned myself; 6 months after that my Band was playing Clubs on Long Island in front of 200-500 customers and making decent money; eventually within another year moved up to larger just below top tier clubsI did latter on pursue on my own [books and such] to try and understand what I was doing
But I had no thoughts of being a 'National' Rock Star nor Professional Studio Musician just a 'Weekend Warrior' though for many decades many times played 3-5 nights a week
I watched it but I am not even sure what his point is and why he is so agitated about it. Most of his videos seem very preachery and negative to me.
I love his playing with Bruford and Holdworth, but a lot of lesson videos of him don’t give me a good feeling and he makes it seem like his way of teaching is the only good way.
I love his playing with Bruford and Holdworth, but a lot of lesson videos of him don’t give me a good feeling and he makes it seem like his way of teaching is the only good way.
