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Thoughts on defretting a bass?

Persona87

Persona87

Dec 4, 2012
918
596
DFW, Texas
#1
I've been playing bass for about a year and a half now, but I played sax for about five hears before that. I know how to read music and I'm a decent listener. I have a couple of basses due to really good used deals in my area: a six string Pedulla and an Ibanez SR506.

I'm big into jazz, mostly bebop and cool jazz. I'd like to get an upright but I live in an apartment so space is at a premium. I was thinking about putting flats on the Ibanez and getting it defretted to get a sound similar to an upright. What do you guys think? I know it won't sound exactly the same, but I was hoping it would get close.

I really just want to make sure that the ibanez sounds different enough from the pedulla to justify having both (since both have Bart preamps and pickups the sound isn't worlds apart, though the american pedulla does sound better than the Korean licensed Bart parts).
 
#3
Please don't defret the Pedulla.
Defretting isn't so bad you'll need a soldering iron (or iron) to get the glue warm then they come out easily. You also want to use tape on your fb to protect it, & the right pincers to lift the frets. Once you get it loose the frets come right out. Things to be careful of are damaging your fingerboard then refilling the empty spaces. You'll find good advice here & youtube.
 
#4
I said I was looking at defretting the ibanez! I wouldn't risk doing that to a boutique american bass.

I guess I should also say that I won't be doing the work, I would get a local luthier to do it that I trust. I think he once quoted somewhere around $150 for the defretting and the setup.
 
#5
M0ses said:
IMO a fretless bass always sounds a LOT cooler for jazz purposes. It won't sound like an upright at all, but I personally am happier going fretless.
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure about the not sounding like an upright. Rounds don't for sure but I've played around with a fretless J bass strung with flats, and with the neck pickup on full and the tone around half it got close enough for me.
 
#6
Persona87 said:
I'm not 100% sure about the not sounding like an upright. Rounds don't for sure but I've played around with a fretless J bass strung with flats, and with the neck pickup on full and the tone around half it got close enough for me.
Click to expand...
To each his own. If it's good enough for you, then go for it. To my ears, the way the harmonics of an upright change over time are pretty much incompatible with the way an electric does.
 
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#7
M0ses said:
To each his own. If it's good enough for you, then go for it. To my ears, the way the harmonics of an upright change over time are pretty much incompatible with the way an electric does.
Click to expand...

Well, sounds like you have more experience with it than I do. I know that I can't stand the way roundwounds sound on a fretless, but I enjoy the sound of flats on it. It makes me think of an older, classier gentleman instead of a wild young man (says the 26 year old male).
 
#8
M0ses said:
IMO a fretless bass always sounds a LOT cooler for jazz purposes. It won't sound like an upright at all, but I personally am happier going fretless.
Click to expand...

I agree fretless is a GREAT idea. The proper candidate is the Ibby. Oddly I have a pair of Ibbies SR 506 and SR206 that I'm pondering turning one of them fretless so I have a pair. Or maybe flip the Sr206 (which I really love, by the way, but it's not 24 frets) for an SR506. My main axes are a G&L L2500 fretted/fretless blueburst pair but are only 5 string. Yes, in your case the Ibby is THE candidate for fretless. Remember that the slots where the frets were weaken the neck and so must be filled with veneer or something strong. Wood putty won't do!

As for an upright sound? Well, a fretless is it's OWN sound and it's a COOL sound so dig it. However if you REALLY do want to go for an upright imitation, the best one around is my Carvin AC50 semi-hollowbody acoustic (they call it acoustic but you can't really play it unplugged) You shove some foam under the strings at the bridge and then "play it like an upright". That latter is the harder part because you have to sort of pluck the string with the side of your finger rather than the tips and you have to have an upright thing going in your head. Yeah, I know it's hard to explain but since I started out playing upright it makes sense to me and eventually it will make sense to you. So if you REALLY wanted to go that way, you'd flip the Ibby for the Carvin. But sadly they only come in 5 string. I had mine strung EADGC for a while to deal with that.

Just a couple of ideas. My choice in your shoes would be to convert the Ibby first and then maybe consider a Carvin later as room and cash allow. I mean I got them both! You can never own too many basses!

:)
 
#9
Played in a Jazz band in the late eighties/early nineties... played an Aria SB1000 fretless exclusively. Could get a lovely upright sound fingering over the bottom of the fingerboard, over the heel of the neck area.

I play a defretted 62 Jazz now in a Drum and bass/dance/ambient scenario.

Recently acquired a CIJ fretless precision... not mine yet!
 
#10
The big difference when comparing a fretless electric bass to a double bass can be summed up in one word; "air."
An electric is a comparatively simple instrument compared to an upright. One is two or three slabs of wood bolted together with some electronics installed, and the other is essentially a massive resonating body, utilizing a radiused top and back - as well as internal bracing - to bring out the inherent qualities of wood that is typically 100+ years old. An upright literally breathes with its own unique voice, which comes from the most minute structural characteristics in its top, broken in by who knows how many players. I don't mean to discredit the luthiery skills of modern builders (I personally believe Ken Smith's work will be worth its weight in gold some day) but there's no substitute for time. The cheapest analogy I can think of is comparing your laptop speakers to a stereo with a sub as big as your head.
All that being said, I'd definitely defret the Ibanez. It's not going to sound like an upright. Ever. Not even close. But what often gets lost in the conversation is that often what you hear live isn't an acoustic bass, it's an electrified acoustic bass. Be it a transducer, piezo, or internal mic, something will always color the tone.
My advice? Find a tone that makes you happy. There are no "Jazz Tones" (what do you think Jamerson would make of Jaco's tone?) only jazz players. Ibanez makes fantastically playable instruments, and the Bart should give you a reasonable range of tones without having to touch your amp. Plus, fretless is fun as hell. The frets on my first bass - a Schecter who's model name is lost to history - were chewed beyond repair thanks to years of using stainless steel strings. Defretting it gave it a whole new life, and now it's my favorite bass to experiment with.
So dive in, young padawan, and see where that Ibby takes you.

(Now everyone disagree with me.)
 
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#12
Few things..
* Why not an EUB?
* Why not a born fretless rather than defretting
* A fretless has its own personality but by no means will it sound like an URB
* Keep in mind you need to have perfect intonation and pulling frets does not guarentee your fingering will be precise..

Just food for thought...
 
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#14
Kevin aka Kebo said:
Few things..
* Why not an EUB?
* Why not a born fretless rather than defretting
* A fretless has its own personality but by no means will it sound like an URB
* Keep in mind you need to have perfect intonation and pulling frets does not guarentee your fingering will be precise..

Just food for thought...
Click to expand...

Because I already have the ibanez, and the used market around me doesn't seem to be too interested. I offered it for sale and so far the best offer I've gotten was $300. I could sell it and get a Squier, sure, but then I'd be trading a nice six string for a decent four string.

Yes, intonation will be a challenge. However, pretty much every instrument besides guitars, harps, and keyboards have to worry about intonation. All woodwind, brass, and orchestral string players have to develop their ears and muscle memory, so I don't see that as a dealbreaker.
 
#16
I'll be the wet blanket- The only similarity in tone you'll get is fingerboard noise and intonation variability. A fretless electric bass will never sound anything like a double bass-the fundamental tone just isn't there. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Still, the Ibby might sound nice as a fretless.
 
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#18
David Jayne said:
I'll be the wet blanket- The only similarity in tone you'll get is fingerboard noise and intonation variability. A fretless electric bass will never sound anything like a double bass-the fundamental tone just isn't there. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Still, the Ibby might sound nice as a fretless.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right of course... try taking an upright on the bus though or walking through town with one.
 
#19
I have a sr500 that im planning on defreting and adding an epoxy coating to the neck and possibly a rerout for emg 35 size humbuckers since I want to paint it anyway but first im going to install a aguilar obp-3 preamp tonite and see if that improves the tone of the stock barts, ive never been a fan of single coil pickups.
the resale value of these basses are so low and id like to have a fretless so why not right? presonaly I plan on buying a raidus block and fret puller and do the defret and epoxy myself so I don't plan to invest a lot in the project but I am a decent craftsmen and painter so if I don't take to fretless the resale value should be the same or better since it will have a real paintjob instead of a crappy oil finish that cant stand up to fingernails.
I say go for it
 
#20
bassbenj said:
I agree fretless is a GREAT idea. The proper candidate is the Ibby. Oddly I have a pair of Ibbies SR 506 and SR206 that I'm pondering turning one of them fretless so I have a pair. Or maybe flip the Sr206 (which I really love, by the way, but it's not 24 frets) for an SR506. My main axes are a G&L L2500 fretted/fretless blueburst pair but are only 5 string. Yes, in your case the Ibby is THE candidate for fretless. Remember that the slots where the frets were weaken the neck and so must be filled with veneer or something strong. Wood putty won't do!

As for an upright sound? Well, a fretless is it's OWN sound and it's a COOL sound so dig it. However if you REALLY do want to go for an upright imitation, the best one around is my Carvin AC50 semi-hollowbody acoustic (they call it acoustic but you can't really play it unplugged) You shove some foam under the strings at the bridge and then "play it like an upright". That latter is the harder part because you have to sort of pluck the string with the side of your finger rather than the tips and you have to have an upright thing going in your head. Yeah, I know it's hard to explain but since I started out playing upright it makes sense to me and eventually it will make sense to you. So if you REALLY wanted to go that way, you'd flip the Ibby for the Carvin. But sadly they only come in 5 string. I had mine strung EADGC for a while to deal with that.

Just a couple of ideas. My choice in your shoes would be to convert the Ibby first and then maybe consider a Carvin later as room and cash allow. I mean I got them both! You can never own too many basses!

:)
Click to expand...
Good post, but Carvin does make a 4 string version, it's called the AC40

I did a defret on a Slammer P bass copy and it came out pretty good. I didn't use any special tools to pull the frets, just worked them out carefully with a small screwdriver. I then used a wood filler to fill the spaces and then coated the board in polyurethane. Some of the woodfiller did fill into the natural grain on the fingerboard so if I was to do it again I'd probably tape off the board before I fill the spaces. With flats the attack is very similar to an upright, just without the resonant after effect.
 
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