Double Bass Thoughts on plywood basses?

[unbrokenchain]

Also, if Luella's BBQ is still there, go there often.

Still there but I think Moe’s and 12 Bones are giving ‘em a run for the money these days

 

[TroyK]

I have a soft spot for Luella's because my grandmother and my mom are named Luella, but I'd be happy to try and judge all of them if I make it back.

 

[TroyK]

...
And I’m glad you’re coming, cuz there aren’t many of us here and I’ve had a hard time finding subs not kidding

You're playing into one of my favorite escape fantasies.

 

[unbrokenchain]

I've lived in the Swannanoa valley since 2008, thought that as Asheville blew up and went through all the stages of gentrification that it would bring in a deluge of better players who would displace yours truly. The opposite actually became true, starting about 2015 or so there literally weren't enough upright players to go around (active gigging ones, anyway) and I was turning down gigs nearly daily because my calendar was full even as an absolutely mediocre musician. Y'all might appreciate an example, I had the experience of swapping/subbing gigs with Ryan Kijanka for like two years before I met the guy, we knew the same people but were always at opposite gigs . There seem to be a few more now, and no way to know the current state since most gigs are off, but there's still room for some Conner and Troy I'm just saying.

Just to hijack a little more in case it saves you some trouble - if you're still looking for housing, central West Avl is really fun, especially if you don't have to drive much, but the prices have doubled a couple times since I've been here... East Avl is chill but not all that walkable. Avoid North and South Asheville if you can. Really. Total bourgie/suburban clusterfreak. The little satellite towns around the area are really where it's at imo... Anyway, definitely holler if you need anything when you get here!

 

[TroyK]

I've lived in the Swannanoa valley since 2008, thought that as Asheville blew up and went through all the stages of gentrification that it would bring in a deluge of better players who would displace yours truly. The opposite actually became true, starting about 2015 or so there literally weren't enough upright players to go around (active gigging ones, anyway) and I was turning down gigs nearly daily because my calendar was full even as an absolutely mediocre musician. Y'all might appreciate an example, I had the experience of swapping/subbing gigs with Ryan Kijanka for like two years before I met the guy, we knew the same people but were always at opposite gigs . There seem to be a few more now, and no way to know the current state since most gigs are off, but there's still room for some Conner and Troy I'm just saying.

Just to hijack a little more in case it saves you some trouble - if you're still looking for housing, central West Avl is really fun, especially if you don't have to drive much, but the prices have doubled a couple times since I've been here... East Avl is chill but not all that walkable. Avoid North and South Asheville if you can. Really. Total bourgie/suburban clusterfreak. The little satellite towns around the area are really where it's at imo... Anyway, definitely holler if you need anything when you get here!

Is there are jazz scene?

I like other stuff too, but couldn't do without the opportunity to play some jazz. I really enjoyed being there last time I visited. I suspect that the housing prices coming from Seattle would not shock me too much.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Is there are jazz scene?

eh, kinda? There are some truly excellent jazz players, just not too many of them, definitely not like an actual major city. Not sure I've ever seen a straight-ahead local jazz show where Zack Page wasn't playing bass, both because he's the guy, and also because, again, small circles.

I suspect that the housing prices coming from Seattle would not shock me too much.

Point. There's your tradeoff

 

[g-dude]

Fear is no reason to make an artistic decision. In extreme weather you can get some damage, often minor and preventable with a $50 room humidifier.

Depending on home layout and weather, $50 humidifier might not cut it.

We got a whole house humidifier this year, and it was great until the temp fell dramatic a couple of weeks ago, and won’t get warm enough for it to kick off for a few days.

So why don’t I run one of those? Because we already have ice building up on the inside of windows that we have to clear every day. Interior humidity has fallen to the mid 20% level, and we’re still fighting to battle.

My laminate bass is in its bag with some Boveda packets to try to keep things relatively stable with regards to neck, bridge and finger board. Even with that, I can tell the difference in the Ebony.

Let’s fast forward to summer - our house will usually be around 50% humidity, occasionally going higher. Even with central AC.

I’m probably going to look into something that will help knock that down a bit.

This doesn’t represent unusual conditions for us. It’s literally every year.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Is there are jazz scene?

There's some good pianists there, Bill Gerhardt, Michael Steven Jeffries, Alex Taub. Harvey Diamond shows up every now and then. Met a good vibes player there, Jason DeCristoforo. And yeah, Zack's a great player and a great guy. But the rap, as I got it from Zack, was that an DB player could work all the time, but it wouldn't be playing jazz all the time. Columbia SC on the other hand, pre-pandemic, had enough work for 4 or 5 other DB players and a couple of BG players , that me showing up on the scene didn't lose anybody any work AND got me playing a bunch of jazz gigs. We'll have to see how it shakes out as vaccinations diminish the spread of the virus and things settle down...

 

[Bill Murray]

If you’re just starting out you probably won’t really feel or appreciate the difference between woods.

Even then, in my experience plywood is easier to maintain, sounds great, and cheaper to repair.

I’ve been using an “entry” model for years now and get compliments on its tone all the time. I even lent it out for some sessions and gigs and everyone who plays it loves the sound and playability.

 

[Conner Nagel]

A pre-emptive welcome to the neighborhood! The bass market around here is crazy, entry level carved ~$1500 and they sit on CL for months, but $3k for an old Kay and it’s gone in an hour, go figure. Condino’s a resource, the bass violin shop in GBO and Fretwell in Staunton I consider “in the area” kinda sorta.
And I’m glad you’re coming, cuz there aren’t many of us here and I’ve had a hard time finding subs not kidding

Thanks man, I will definitely reach out to you once I get settled!

 

[TroyK]

Thanks man, I will definitely reach out to you once I get settled!

Talkbass at its best.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

-Setup and health of any bass is possibly more important than what materials it’s made of.
-Although carved basses generally sound best under the bow I owned a German flatback that didn’t. Strings, tailpieces, wolf tone eliminators, soundpost adjustments failed to tame the wolfy A string and it just didn’t bow well at all.
-Pallatino, Cremona (Crapatino) labeled basses with those thin plywood tops and not recommended. They give plywood basses a bad name.
-A healthy Kay or such may be a good option for pizz playing IF some of the intrinsic weaknesses are dealt with; mainly thin, warped necks and low projection. Many old carved basses have low projection as well. Kays are good platforms to build on but I’m not a fan of them in stock form. I have one which may be the best pizz bass I’ve owned and it sounds great under the bow although it isn’t suitable in any orchestra.
-Basses that can do it all are often quite expensive. Like many things in this life, we may have to compromise.

Play a lot of basses and develop a relationship with a good luthier.

 

[AGCurry]

-Pallatino, Cremona (Crapatino) labeled basses with those thin plywood tops and not recommended. They give plywood basses a bad name.

Greg, I think the main selling point of the Palatino basses, ironically, is that they're "sturdy," which only means that the tops are likely to be too thick. Having owned one for a second (my mistake), that was true in that case. Other aspects of its construction were mediocre at best.

Now, if I'm checking out a bass, I look for a top on the thin side, so that if I tap the top I will hear a resonant "bom" rather than a dead "thud."

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Greg, I think the main selling point of the Palatino basses, ironically, is that they're "sturdy," which only means that the tops are likely to be too thick. Having owned one for a second (my mistake), that was true in that case. Other aspects of its construction were mediocre at best.

Now, if I'm checking out a bass, I look for a top on the thin side, so that if I tap the top I will hear a resonant "bom" rather than a dead "thud."

Not my experience at all. I’ve seen some of those things with tops close to 5mm thick and after a few years they sink and the post begins to make a bump.

 

[TroyK]

Hey guys, common discussion, worth revisiting perhaps.

But our OP is moving to Ashville and through this thread has connected with a local member who will connect him to the scene and 2 respected area shops, plus James Candino. He's not considering a Palatino and I'm confident that whether he ends up with a laminate, hybrid, of fully carved bass, he's got what he needs now to make a good choice. This is actually a thread on this topic with a good outcome.

How about we not devolve it into the Chinese BSO debate? Or if you must, move it to a new or one of the old threads on that topic.

 

[damonsmith]

I've had exactly two low humidity damage situations. Both minor, both at lows in the single digits and it was so dry I was also uncomfortable. If you can live in your home full time, with any level of comfort it is likely fine for the bass. You can isolate in a room with a basic humidifier in extreme times.
Basses predate modern climate control.
Carelessness and basses don't go together, be neither do fear and making any kind of art.

Depending on home layout and weather, $50 humidifier might not cut it.

We got a whole house humidifier this year, and it was great until the temp fell dramatic a couple of weeks ago, and won’t get warm enough for it to kick off for a few days.

So why don’t I run one of those? Because we already have ice building up on the inside of windows that we have to clear every day. Interior humidity has fallen to the mid 20% level, and we’re still fighting to battle.

My laminate bass is in its bag with some Boveda packets to try to keep things relatively stable with regards to neck, bridge and finger board. Even with that, I can tell the difference in the Ebony.

Let’s fast forward to summer - our house will usually be around 50% humidity, occasionally going higher. Even with central AC.

I’m probably going to look into something that will help knock that down a bit.

This doesn’t represent unusual conditions for us. It’s literally every year.

 

[g-dude]

I've had exactly two low humidity damage situations. Both minor, both at lows in the single digits and it was so dry I was also uncomfortable. If you can live in your home full time, with any level of comfort it is likely fine for the bass. You can isolate in a room with a basic humidifier in extreme times.
Basses predate modern climate control.
Carelessness and basses don't go together, be neither fear and making any kind of art.

Well, don’t know if you consider shooting lighting bolts out of your fingers every time you touch a light switch and having the back of your hands feel like sandpaper to be “any level of comfort”.

Some of us actually take practical considerations into account. I guess we can’t all be as cool and dismissive as you.

 

[TroyK]

Well, don’t know if you consider shooting lighting bolts out of your fingers every time you touch a light switch and having the back of your hands feel like sandpaper to be “any level of comfort”.

Some of us actually take practical considerations into account. I guess we can’t all be as cool and dismissive as you.

Some of you are trying pretty hard, though.

I'm going to ask nicely one more time that if you're not trying to help our OP find a bass in Ashville, NC at this point to step away from your keyboard and stop the escalation of these off-topic debates.

 

[Wasnex]

Basses predate modern climate control.

AFAIK modern climate control is the primary problem. At cold temps the air is able to hold less humidity. When you warm the air up it can hold more humidity. The problem is houses are not air tight, so you are constantly warming air from the outside. I just checked; the local humidity (outdoors) is 69%, but in my house the humidity is 15%.

AFAIK, the disconnect is it's relative humidity that we are talking about...15% of what the air can hold at 76 degrees versus 69% of what the air can hold at 17 degrees. A bass would probably be okay at 69% humidity in a room that is relatively stable at 17 degree. But AFAIK 15% humidity, regardless of the temperature, can be problematic. I have a pretty nasty crack opening up on the ebony fretboard of my #1 bass guitar. This crack was totally stable for 15 years until I moved here.

The humidity in my house would be 2-3% lower if I didn't have a whole house humidifier. A room humidifier is not going to do much good IMHO--each room has both an air supply and an air return. The only way to correct the problem would be to get a better whole house humidifier, and then I would have to deal with condensation which would cause other problems.

The summer humidity in my house sometimes exceeds 60%. Last year I finally decided to buy fairly large dehumidifier and generally kept it between 45 and 50%

 

[Wasnex]

Some of you are trying pretty hard, though.

I'm going to ask nicely one more time that if you're not trying to help our OP find a bass in Ashville, NC at this point to step away from your keyboard and stop the escalation of these off-topic debates.

You don't have to threaten me three times. UNSUB