Double Bass Three kinds of musicians

[AGCurry]

I've made an observation from rehearsals in an amateur orchestra.

Kind of a rant, kind of an epiphany...

In regards to sightreading, there are three categories of players.

The first category comprises players who are very good sightreaders. I love 'em, and I love 'em even more if they have good ears as well.

The second category - to which I belong - comprises those who don't read very well but listen for tempo. If I can't read a passage well enough to play it in time, I will try to hit strong beats and depend on home practice to play it properly. Sometimes I will simplify the passage so that I can contribute its essence without letting the group down.

The third category drives me nuts. These players, when sightreading, must hit every note, even if it means dragging the tempo down ... which hampers the whole orchestra. The "right note" played late is WRONG. My teacher, when I related to him this observation, knew exactly what I meant; he told me of a bassist who had to play every note and, as a result, hit the last note of a passage in a rest, confounding the conductor and the orchestra.

This all may seem obvious to seasoned musicians, but having played nonclassical music for decades, it has been surprising to me.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I thought the saying was “There are 3 kinds of musicians in the world, those who can count and those who can’t.”?

 

[ebo]

“Simplify the passage so I can contribute it’s essence, without letting the group down.” Absolutely this. If I can work up to note for note that’s fantastic, but getting the feel is way more important. That’s in a band context…orchestra, not sure…and sight reading complex pieces, that’s for godlike people, not me.

 

[STRMan]

I'm a decent sight reader, but I could be better. Here is an epiphany level observation I had.

A few years ago, I joined a local concert band as an upright bassist. I was the only string instrument. They played lots of marches, polkas, stuff like that. They ere long established and many players had been together for quite a while when I joined. Quite a few were music teachers. They were very welcoming.

Many of the pieces we played did not have double bass parts, so I had to read off of tuba parts. Most of the key signatures were flat, where I was used to playing in sharp keys most of the time in orchestras.

When a new piece was called out, I'd often have to sight read, adjusting for the flat keys, while transposing up everything under an E an octave. I got pretty good at it.

What amazed me was that after a 90 minute rehearsal, even if I showed up exhausted after a long day at work, I was totally wide awake and hyper alert in an incredibly good mood. It's true that sightreading music is an activity that engages almost every part of your brain simultaneously. Your ears, your eyes, your reasoning center, as well as your emotional response to the music.

I moved away and left that band, but I really miss playing with them. There is a local community band where I live now, but they are not nearly on the level of that other band. I keep looking.

 

[knirirr]

The third category drives me nuts. These players, when sightreading, must hit every note, even if it means dragging the tempo down ...

...

This all may seem obvious to seasoned musicians, but having played nonclassical music for decades, it has been surprising to me.

It's been cropping up on the heads in some local jazz sessions recently and is particularly frustrating.
I don't recall encountering it before when playing non-classical music.

 

[oliebrice]

Years ago when I was starting out I occasionally used to play in the houseband of a pretty ropey small town jam session. There was a pianist who would bring Jarrett transcriptions with him, call the standard and then proceed to attempt to play the transcription over the rhythm section - slowing down and occasionally even repeating tricky passages! Made for some very bizarre music...

 

[Don Hergert]

I'd probably categorize our strange sect (musicians) into a different set of three categories...

1 People who read music, including those who read music extremely well, but people also who cannot play music by ear.

2 People who play music by ear, including those who play music by ear extremely well, but people also who cannot read music.

3 People who can read music and who can play music by ear, including those who can do one or both of these extremely well.

As sub categories to each of the above groups, I'd add...

- People who can't keep tempo or rhythm.
and
- People who can't recognize differences in pitch.

 

[Ed S]

I'll think about this thread when I attend m 2d session w/ my local orch on Tues. Of Andy's 3, I suspect I'm closest to #2. But with the varied meters, dynamic markings, and the conductor, figuring out the tempo was quite challenging.

Quite a surprise for one who has prided himself on being a rock solid rhythm section...

... simplify the passage so that I can contribute its essence without letting the group down. ...

Pretty much sums up my intentions.

 

[Bruce Calin]

In my community orchestra where I'm the principal I encourage simplifying until we can play the given passage with no rhythmic issues. I also encourage not wearing ourselves out by trying to play as loud as possible on fortissimo passages with loud brass, but as correctly and relaxed as possible with decent volume. As related to sight reading, an article in the union magazine a while back said that it was the most stressful musical activity for older players. That's going to be my excuse.

 

[Leif Dering]

I had a really hard time sightreading at first. I wound up joining a reading orchestra run by a local-ish university. We met every week and just sightread stuff, ranging from stuff like Barber's Adagio to full symphonies, and one day the conductor even pulled out Don Juan. Helped my sightreading a lot- it's not perfect, or even that great, really, but I got pretty good at sticking with the group even if I missed notes.

Highly recommend joining reading orchestras/bands. Improves your sightreading while making new friends!

 

[David Potts]

I thought that this could also relate to "There are three sorts of people, those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened." As I get older I can see the progression as well as the immediate!!

IMO the most important thing not to lose as you get older is your memory. I can't remember what the second most important thing is !!

Cheers, everyone.

 

[TK1820]

I'm a professional orchestral player and a really good sight reader, but learned to sight read in a party band playing bass guitar. Bands that didn't rehearse, but were full of Eastman jazz guys who could read down any chart!

 

[rickwolff]

The third category reminds me of the bassist who continually dragged - way behind the beat.

He became so distraught after being pestered about it by his bandmates that he went out, and

Threw himself behind a bus.

 

[turf3]

That third category is the bane of my existence, even though I don't play classical music any more.

The two biggest offenders: banjo players and guitar players. They learn a pattern, but they don't practice with a metronome, and they can't or won't simplify it so they can play in time. I've been known to yell "Play fewer notes, faster!"

The only thing worse is the person who insists on banging the tambourine on 1 and 3, but always just slightly out of time.

 

[Matthijs]

The only thing worse is the person who insists on banging the tambourine on 1 and 3, but always just slightly out of time.

How about out conga players in a latin big band, playing in their own time-bubble?

 

[CharleyJackson]

Musicians (any instrument) with good ears, adequate chops and experience can jam. Able to change and morph musically through wherever dominant players take us. Tempo and meter changes, rhythm changes, and even key changes. They can recognize emerging themes and help push them to the top. People who are strictly readers miss out on this wonderful aspect of music.

On the other hand musicians who cannot read miss out on experiencing the group effort as an organized, scripted unit that has a satisfaction and reward factor unique unto itself. People who have been in chorale, band and orchestras and all the permutations can testify to this.

So I think a combination of the two are best. I can read but certainly NOT top notch. (I’m still learning and practicing every day). As an ear player I’m way above average.

And then there are the accomplished readers out there who may not be able to play by ear the way they wish. But just like reading, it takes practice.

 

[Paps]

We had a conductor explain to us that:

If you have eyesight issues, you can be accommodated, just listen more carefully.
If you have hearing issues, again you can be accommodated, watch the conductor and you leader carefully.
But if you are blind and deaf, that may be a problem!

Also, my technique and sight reading is passable but my concentration lapses and when I get lost, I'm lost.
Luckily, my playing partner, although he cant play in tune, cant play off beat and cant produce a decent sound; he always knows where we are. I find ex-pianist bassists can follow the flow of the music better.
I must say, that since I have been leading bass section my focus has improved a lot; counting and cues.

 

[turf3]

...he told me of a bassist who had to play every note and, as a result, hit the last note of a passage in a rest, confounding the conductor and the orchestra.....

Charles Ives, "Country Band March"