Thumb anchor movement?

[iamlowsound]

Hi Mark,

Great question.

I've definitely checked out Pattitucci's technique,....and he's achieved TREMENDOUS results with it ....BUT......

it's not a "relaxed, natural" position for me. If my (right) hand is relaxed, my thumb lays straight down......not to the side. My ring and pinky fingers want to naturally "curve" so to speak,....not tuck back under.... PLUS.....when you're playing up on the C string etc., you have to completely change the angle of your index and middle fingers.....or, you move the whole thing and your B string is ringing.

Please don't misunderstand me.....JP makes the technique work for him....for sure....He's absolutely one of my favorite players and a big influence......but that technique is/was REALLY uncomfortable for me.

If this is working for you, then I applaud your efforts and integrity.....you obviously are headed in the right direction.

I don't thumb slap on the 6 string.....or on anything else for that matter...HA! , so having the thumb in the "ready to play" position doesn't apply......Also, I enjoy and respect the "slappers" out there.....it's just not what I do!

The big goal is: eliminate ringing strings, get the instrument under control and try to keep the motion of the right hand as consistent as possible......avoid learning un-needed ranges of motion and muscle memory. I hope this makes sense.

I could show you this in person in 2 minutes.....or on my "Technique Builders" DVD.......

Oh yeah,.............I keep my fingernails gnawed off to nothing, so I couldn't use them if I wanted to! Although I've heard other bass players use them. Steve Lawson does some AMAZING things......of course his nails are painted blue too.....maybe that's what I need.....HA!

I hope this helped......

Enjoy.......

just because you don't slap doesn't mean that you can't use your thumb. i for one use the floating thumb techneque and i use my thumb for quick double stops, in fact i find it uncomfortable to use two fingers for double stops as it feels unnatural.

lowsound

 

[thomasrhoward]

Todd

I just wanted to thank you for this wonderful advice. I've been playing on and off (mostly on) for 25+ years and have always struggled with my right-hand technique. Mostly I would anchor my thumb on the pickup or E string. When I switched to a 5 string, I found myself having to move my between the pickup, B and E string, which worked but took effort. Add to this my rigid fingers and oddly bent wrist, and I was anything but relaxed.

I've tried other methods of modifying my right-hand technique, but none felt natural 'til now. After reading this thread yesterday morning, I didn't think it would work for me because I've been anchoring my thumb for so long. But I picked up my bass and gave it a try, and I must say it was really quite easy. It will take a little bit of work on my part to feel completely comfortable with it and to learn the new muscle movements, but I am really impressed with the changes so far.

An added advantage to this is that I can now look at basses with odd pickup configurations (or no pickups under the strings, such as acoustic basses) and no longer wonder where I would anchor my thumb.

I can't wait to see what other gems you have on your DVD.

Thanx
-tom howard

<snip>

First of all I wouldn't ANCHOR at all.

I would HIGHLY recommend learning the floating thumb technique.

<snip>

 

[Todd Johnson]

just because you don't slap doesn't mean that you can't use your thumb. i for one use the floating thumb techneque and i use my thumb for quick double stops, in fact i find it uncomfortable to use two fingers for double stops as it feels unnatural.

lowsound

Dear Lowsound,

Hey, good point!!!....."just because I don't slap doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use your thumb."

You are absolutely right!!!!..... thanks for pointing that out!!

(hey, glad to hear you use the floating thumb technique!!)

But, sometimes I use my thumb to play bass lines.

....I somtimes use my thumb and an index finger to play chords (like you!).

...I sometimes use my thumb, index and middle finger to play a 3-note chord.

....I sometimes use my thumb to play a bass line and play a 2 or 3 note chord with a combination of my index, middle and ring fingers....at the same time!!

Hey, God gave us all these fingers and a thumb....just trying to figure out how to use them is the fun part!

Keep up the good work!!!

 

[Todd Johnson]

Todd

I just wanted to thank you for this wonderful advice. I've been playing on and off (mostly on) for 25+ years and have always struggled with my right-hand technique. Mostly I would anchor my thumb on the pickup or E string. When I switched to a 5 string, I found myself having to move my between the pickup, B and E string, which worked but took effort. Add to this my rigid fingers and oddly bent wrist, and I was anything but relaxed.

I've tried other methods of modifying my right-hand technique, but none felt natural 'til now. After reading this thread yesterday morning, I didn't think it would work for me because I've been anchoring my thumb for so long. But I picked up my bass and gave it a try, and I must say it was really quite easy. It will take a little bit of work on my part to feel completely comfortable with it and to learn the new muscle movements, but I am really impressed with the changes so far.

An added advantage to this is that I can now look at basses with odd pickup configurations (or no pickups under the strings, such as acoustic basses) and no longer wonder where I would anchor my thumb.

I can't wait to see what other gems you have on your DVD.

Thanx
-tom howard

Dear Tom,

Hey, glad to hear that the advice was helpful to you!!

I appreciate you opening your mind to new techniques and methods. Way to go!!

I should also mention that my new "Technique Builders" DVD is scheduled to arrive tomorrow (Thursday Feb. 26th) sometime.

I should be able to accept orders, starting tomorrow morning if all goes well and my webmaster get's my website updated. I've forwarded all the information to him, so it should be ready to go in the morning. Yeah!!

I'll be sure to start a new thread, letting everyone know that it's available.

This DVD will be right up your alley Tom. I've got a TON of great information that'll really help you get this stuff together in short order!

Keep up the good work!!

 

[badgrandad]

Todd,
I PLay a 5string and have always moved my thumb anchor from string to string and have wondered if the floating thumb style would be an improvement so i have been practicing it this week.

I noticed that when I lay my thumb across the strings I have to use my right hand differently (as far as the part of my finger I can pluck the string with) When anchoring my thumb, my hand stands away from the bass and I pluck with the pad part of my finger. When using the floating thumb style it seems like I am using the tip of my finger almost like finger-picking an acoustic guitar (is it alright to say "guitar" here? you can edit it if not!).

I also noticed that if i am moving back and forth on a lot of octaves or moving across and back from higher to lower strings I end up trying to pluck a string my thumb is muting. Am I missing something other than practice?

I will say that I see real potential with this technique as well as adding some neat muting/damping/harmonic effects. I also would like to add that my hand stays very relaxed .

Any insight?

 

[spindizzy]

Hey Tod,

I just wanted to compliment your advice in these threads. I have played for over thirty years and whenever I see these anchor questions I have to chuckle a bit. Not that I don't understand that folks are trying, admirably, to be the best players they can be but more that in brings back memories.

Your advice to not anchor is absolutely correct and if I might add any habit that you develop that does not lead to a level of full flexibility and mobility is a virtual dead end for most players.

As far as slapping, well I have managed to incorporate mulitiple approaches to that and as I have been "floating" my thumb for twenty plus years, have found that I am actually much better at changing my approach in mid-stream, facilitating the ability to use multiple attack styles all the time. Going back and forth between working the thumb and three fingers in the clasical sense to hammering with the side of my thumb against the neck to the more common through the string slap (including double thumb) back to a more straight foward fingerstyle.

Once you are adept at the floating thumb these things happen almost naturally and it frees you to simply play what makes sense when it makes sense.

I have enjoyed the posts from you I have seen thus far and I am sure that you are an excellent teacher. Kudos.

 

[spindizzy]

Just one addition to my last post...and promise you won't shoot me...I have also gotten to the point where I only use the thumb on my left hand behind the neck occasionally. I have found that I no longer need that support and it has free me to be more expressive at times and occasionally gives me an extra fretting finger.

Learning to drop it was the result of a bout with joint pain in my left thumb that forced me to give it a rest but still play. Talk about a subject that might upset a few technique purrists. Oh well I guess us old men should get a pass on that one.

 

[queisser]

The secret to the floating thumb is to drop your right forearm across the strings and pull it up with your right hand relaxed. Your fingers should be curved and your thumb should lay across the strings and will serve as your "perfectly desinged muting system". The trick now is to move the "mechanism". Make sense.

Todd,

I tried the floating thumb this morning - I'm a total beginner so I thought now is a good time to experiment since I don't have to unlearn anything. So far I like it but I have a question: where does the thumb float to when you play the E string (I've got a fretted 4 string)? I tried to put it on the top of the neck pickup as in the traditional technique but that requires awkward motion when changing to the other strings. I prefer just using my elbow for support but I don't know if that will get me into trouble later.

I also noticed that the fingers move more in between the two pickups (G&L L2000) instead of over the neck pick, which is where I have been playing - is that normal?

I'll take a look at your DVD but I'd be grateful for a hint what to do for now.

Thanks,
Andrew Queisser

 

[Todd Johnson]

Todd,

I tried the floating thumb this morning - I'm a total beginner so I thought now is a good time to experiment since I don't have to unlearn anything. So far I like it but I have a question: where does the thumb float to when you play the E string (I've got a fretted 4 string)? I tried to put it on the top of the neck pickup as in the traditional technique but that requires awkward motion when changing to the other strings. I prefer just using my elbow for support but I don't know if that will get me into trouble later.

I also noticed that the fingers move more in between the two pickups (G&L L2000) instead of over the neck pick, which is where I have been playing - is that normal?

I'll take a look at your DVD but I'd be grateful for a hint what to do for now.

Thanks,
Andrew Queisser

Hi Andrew,

Sorry I'm so slow in getting back to you. I've been "swamped" trying to get orders out since my new dvd came out last Thursday.

Anyway....

The thumb has to "just clear the E string" when you're playing it.....it's a little awkward at first, but you'll get it. It's important to pivot from the shoulder.....don't drop the elbow (although keep it in contact with the body of the bass)...then.... move the mechanism.

You should be able to move your fingers most anywhere you want. Remember, you can get such a wide variety of sound depending on where you place the right hand. Food for thought.

The DVD should answer all this in GREAT detail.

Let me know if you should have further questions.

I'm here to help.

 

[Todd Johnson]

Todd,
I PLay a 5string and have always moved my thumb anchor from string to string and have wondered if the floating thumb style would be an improvement so i have been practicing it this week.

I noticed that when I lay my thumb across the strings I have to use my right hand differently (as far as the part of my finger I can pluck the string with) When anchoring my thumb, my hand stands away from the bass and I pluck with the pad part of my finger. When using the floating thumb style it seems like I am using the tip of my finger almost like finger-picking an acoustic guitar (is it alright to say "guitar" here? you can edit it if not!).

I also noticed that if i am moving back and forth on a lot of octaves or moving across and back from higher to lower strings I end up trying to pluck a string my thumb is muting. Am I missing something other than practice?

I will say that I see real potential with this technique as well as adding some neat muting/damping/harmonic effects. I also would like to add that my hand stays very relaxed .

Any insight?

Badgrandad,

Hey, sounds like you're on the right track....you actually have it surrounded.

I hate to say this.....and I don't mean to "duck" your questions.....at all,.... but I would like to recommend my new "technique builders" DVD. It REALLY explains and demonstrates all of this in GREAT detail. I don't want you to be "close", yet still miss it.

I'm happy to "try" and answer your questions, but it's hard to type an answer that would be as good as what I demonstrate on the DVD. I feel trapped between a rock and a "hard to explain" place. (Thelonius Monk once said, "talking about music is like dancing about architecture".)

Forgive me.....let's try this....send me a personal email off list and I'll send you my phone number and you can call me.....or you can send me yours and I'll call you.....then I'll do my best to talk you through the process.

Sound fair enough??

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

[Todd Johnson]

Just one addition to my last post...and promise you won't shoot me...I have also gotten to the point where I only use the thumb on my left hand behind the neck occasionally. I have found that I no longer need that support and it has free me to be more expressive at times and occasionally gives me an extra fretting finger.

Learning to drop it was the result of a bout with joint pain in my left thumb that forced me to give it a rest but still play. Talk about a subject that might upset a few technique purrists. Oh well I guess us old men should get a pass on that one.

Spindizzy,

Hey, first of all thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. It's appreciated. I honestly try to answer everything I can to the best of my ability.

Hey, sounds like you've got it surrounded. It sounds like you've established good habits.....learned the rules ....so to speak....so now you can break them. Makes sense. Good for you.

But I'm sure you'd agree with me that the beginning students need to learn the fundamentals "first".....establish good habits.....THEN......adjust to fit their needs.

Keep up the good work.

 

[spindizzy]

Spindizzy,

Hey, first of all thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. It's appreciated. I honestly try to answer everything I can to the best of my ability.

Hey, sounds like you've got it surrounded. It sounds like you've established good habits.....learned the rules ....so to speak....so now you can break them. Makes sense. Good for you.

But I'm sure you'd agree with me that the beginning students need to learn the fundamentals "first".....establish good habits.....THEN......adjust to fit their needs.

Keep up the good work.

Todd,

I absolutely agree. This was a technique who's mother was necessity and I would never suggest that it is so important that everyone ought to go out and explore it. I can do it now only after more years than I care to count of playing and practicing. I simply thought it was an interesting slant on the floating thumb and how over time and with lots of experimentation seemingly new techniques continuously challenge and evolve our art.

However my advice, to those who listen, is learn right, strengthen the basics, experiment and expand, revisit the basics and allow your instrument to evolve you as much as you evolve it.

Blessings my friend,

Mark

 

[Todd Johnson]

Todd,

I absolutely agree. This was a technique who's mother was necessity and I would never suggest that it is so important that everyone ought to go out and explore it. I can do it now only after more years than I care to count of playing and practicing. I simply thought it was an interesting slant on the floating thumb and how over time and with lots of experimentation seemingly new techniques continuously challenge and evolve our art.

However my advice, to those who listen, is learn right, strengthen the basics, experiment and expand, revisit the basics and allow your instrument to evolve you as much as you evolve it.

Blessings my friend,

Mark

Mark,

Well said..........Thanks so much for your positive, insightful input.

God bless,

 

[Scopaz]

Well let me say I am honored to be given a recommendation by Todd. He is a great friend and gifted talent. I am excited to know Todd is coming out to the Midwest. I was hoping to hook up after NAMM Todd but was informed you had been sick. I hope you are feeling better now and I am also excited to learn about your DVD. Not enough time to do it all. Somehow you are doing it. God Bless.

 

[PinkFloydDan]

I am getting that sucker as soon as my finances get a bit better. My technique sucks.

Yes, you'll have to adjust to it.

Most bass players tend to play too hard with their right hand. They play just below the "splat" level. On a scale of 1 to 10, let's say the 10 is breaking a string, 9 is a blood blister and 8 is that "splat" sound. Make sense??

Well, most guys tend to play at about a 7, or just below the splat level. This means you can only get "1" louder before the sound gets "caustic" and 6 softer.

Common sense says to shoot for a 4 or a 5 level with the right hand........that way you have some headroom before your sound becomes caustic or disipates.

Remember that it's the electric bass "GUITAR"......not an amplified upright bass. We have state of the art pickups and zillion watt amps. WE DON'T NEED TO BEAT IT TO DEATH!

So........lighten your touch......turn up a little bit more and play lighter. This gives you headroom and the opportunity to "draw" a lot more sounds out of the instrument.

Add the floating thumb to eliminate any ringing strings and you're in excellent shape.

Again........I don't mean to sound like an infomercial, but this will be covered "in depth" on my new "Technique builders" DVD that'll be out Feb. 1st at my website www.toddjohnsonmusic.com . I would encourage you to consider picking it up.

I hope this helps..........and remember.....this is just my opinion.

Have fun!!

 

[Todd Johnson]

Well let me say I am honored to be given a recommendation by Todd. He is a great friend and gifted talent. I am excited to know Todd is coming out to the Midwest. I was hoping to hook up after NAMM Todd but was informed you had been sick. I hope you are feeling better now and I am also excited to learn about your DVD. Not enough time to do it all. Somehow you are doing it. God Bless.

Scott,

You're my hero!! I'm hoping maybe you and I can hook up while I'm in the area. I need to steal a few licks from you.

Let's talk soon and see if we can make something happen.

I'm also going to be in Indianapolis.....

Talk to you soon,

 

[Todd Johnson]

I am getting that sucker as soon as my finances get a bit better. My technique sucks.

Cool....

Just let me know when you're ready and we'll hook you up.

Play slow!

 

[badgrandad]

Todd,

Thanks for the reply (albeit understandibly not an answer!). I have decided to get your Technique Builders DVD first and THEN ask for your personal response if still necessary.

I really appreciate the offer for the personal response and am sending you a PM.

 

[elmohoof]

When I was at Berklee (1972) I had a teacher named Rich Appleman who I think is still there and he had a P bass that he put a hole in the size of his thumb to "anchor" it on that bass. He showed me that I could do the same on my jazz bass by resting my thumb on the left end of the pickup which i still do today without carving a hole in my bass

 

[Todd Johnson]

Todd,

Thanks for the reply (albeit understandibly not an answer!). I have decided to get your Technique Builders DVD first and THEN ask for your personal response if still necessary.

I really appreciate the offer for the personal response and am sending you a PM.

Got it...thanks badgrandad!!!