Double Bass thumb on the stick or in the frog.

[marvin spangles]

I am trying to get serious with my bowing chops. I am at it about two years now. I constantly monitor my own bow hold (french) I have recently been alternating between thumb on the stick and thumb in the frog. I think the thumb in the frog produces a stronger sound allowing the arm weight to more naturally fall on the string. Opinions anyone. Am I talking bulls@!t?

 

[dchan]

^ That's the "Italian" bowhold that Ken Smith taught me. I find it a lot easier to relax my grip with it, and it tends to produce a bigger sound. I think you should use whatever you feel comfortable with.

 

[simandlesque]

^ That's the "Italian" bowhold that Ken Smith taught me. I find it a lot easier to relax my grip with it, and it tends to produce a bigger sound. I think you should use whatever you feel comfortable with.

This is what I currently use. However, I would pay special attention to your finger spacing, particularly to how far extended your index finger is, because Jack Budrow was telling me that Petracchi style (what you're doing) suggests the fingers are closer together to maintain finger flexibility.

I've been experimenting with both grips, however, because IMO, I feel like the standard "thumb on the frog where it meets the stick" is more capable of nuanced playing and better weight distribution, because of the bigger spacing of the fingers with good flexibility. A lot of players out of Philadelphia play like this, especially with huge extensions of the index finger, most notably Joe Conyers.

I think the latter is a higher-risk, higher-reward grip...at least for my hand. I feel more in control with the Petracchi right now.

RJ

 

[dchan]

^ Very true. I feel that the "French" style (standard, thumb on stick or where stick meets frog) tends to get a sweeter and more flexible sound, while the "Italian" or Petracchi style gets a bigger but a slightly coarser and more aggressive sound.

That said, as I mentioned in my first post, I found the "Italian" style to be easier in getting my arm and hands to relax. I think you need a lot of discipline or very good hands to pull off the standard "French" style effectively. And like you, I've found myself switching from grip to grip to see which is optimal for the music that I'm playing.

 

[MDEbass]

I know of some people playing it on the stick, and others who play it on the frog. I am able to get a bit more out of my arm and shoulder weight when I put it on the frog.

 

[marvin spangles]

Thanks guys for your input. I think I will continue to alternate between both for the present time.

 

[Dbass926]

Interesting that someone said Philly guys are on the stick because Hal Robinson holds the bow in the frog. Ed Barker is on the stick and both advocate using a rubber grip. The Italian grip has more of the stick vibrating and the hand is open wider which can lead to a darker sound. The further up you hold it, the more tip control you can have, as well as changing the balance point. Sometimes you might change and alternate too. Variety is the spice of life!

 

[dchan]

^ Ken Smith claimed all the Philly guys used the "Italian" grip, but I really can't say if he was right or not.

 

[jallenbass]

Interesting that someone said Philly guys are on the stick because Hal Robinson holds the bow in the frog.

Back in the day I recall Hal saying that he puts his thumb on the frog for heavier strokes and thumb on the stick for things like Mozart. I pretty sure that Duane Rosengard uses his thumb on the frog. This was a while ago.

 

[reedo35]

I think you need a lot of discipline or very good hands to pull off the standard "French" style effectively.

Actually the trick (that took me years of practice and pain to realize) is relaxing your arm and shoulder.
If it hurts, you're doing it wrong.