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Double Bass Thumb Position Prevalence in Orchestral Playing

sean_on_bass

sean_on_bass

Dec 29, 2005
5,205
8,604
USA
#1
Hi all,

Just a curious question from a newbie jazz player. How often do common orchestral pieces require the use of thumb position? Extremely rare, or common place? This is assuming you would be part of a bass section in an orchestra. Thanks all.
 
#3
Dbass926 said:
Depends on how comfortable you are with thumb position. There are plenty of passages that can be simplified with thumb position, but it is probably not the most wise or logical approach to use it all the time.

In other words, don't use it so much that you become known for using it in orchestra
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Brent, I think he just means to ask how often notes above the octave come up in the repertoire.

If that's the question, the answer is seldom. Much more common in music post 1950, but that amounts to less than 15% of music for most orchestras.
 
#5
PaulCannon said:
Brent, I think he just means to ask how often notes above the octave come up in the repertoire.

If that's the question, the answer is seldom. Much more common in music post 1950, but that amounts to less than 15% of music for most orchestras.
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This is what i was wondering. Before asking i had assumed older music utilized the higher notes rarely, but modern music more frequently. Thanks to both of you! In my bow practice i tend to stick to getting a good sound out of the lower notes(below high G), wondering how much attention i should be giving to learning/practicing thumb position bowing. Sounds like it is a skill to attain, but maybe not the end all be all to orchestral playing.
 
#8
Solo work in the T position is a whole register in its own right but for orchestral pieces our musical space takes advantage of unique low notes that we produce. When a bass section is scored to occasionally flirt with the T position it usually is only with a couple of notes on the G and D string so that's not so a big a deal.

I found however when I started playing in the Thumb position it really influenced my bowing vocabulary in the lower positions (especially my understanding of varying bow speed and placement relative to the bridge). If you want to get something underway that will feed into orchestral playing (and your jazz), its really worthwhile practicing 3 octave scales (M/Mi and all 12 keys) and 'vomits' into the T position.

Worth checking Bill Bentgen's site if you know it? (you can print off the PDFs and download the MP3 of the scales to play along to http://www.billbentgen.com/podcast/index.htm ) and I am sure there will be plenty on TB about Gary Karr's vomits exercise already - essentially a very effective string rising drill with accuracy of finger placement and accuracy of bowing contact point /speed going on at the same time.
 
#9
Wow, thanks! Currently practicing 2 octave scales, but i think its time to bump it up a notch in an effort to get used to shifting in and out of thumb position. I do strive to be fluent in all areas of the fingerboard, so this feeds right into my goals. Also, bowing skill is very important to me, even as a jazz player. I like to play melodies and solos using the bow whenever possible. I also have aspirations to audition for a community orchestra in the future.

I am currently working with the vomit exercise and will continue to do so. Thanks again everyone.
 
#10
I see it all the time, they're in isolated passages but we see them! Right now we're doing Tchaik 5 and Lizt Les Preludes, and there are moments where we are not quite in the stratosphere, but we get up there.
 
#13
Dont recall that any of his 30 studies go above the octave ( maybe the odd A or a Bb) but thats not to say that for ease you wouldnt play with the thumb below the octave which is a relatively modern way of playing in comparison to Simandl's traditional 'closed hand' fingering system.

You could look up Storch-Hrabe too if you are wanting to get some exercises under your belt (personally think his etudes are a bit more interesting than Simandl's ...but each to their own!).
 
#15
Thumb position notes in orchestral pieces occur in less than 10% of the repertoire. Often it is the octave A which can be played as a harmonic on the D-string (the tuning note).

However, as a professional, it is expected that you nail every note. More modern pieces that have higher notes often start on awkward notes like Eb a sixth above the G harmonic. So, diligent practice of this area of the fingerboard is required to make it sound good.

Then there's the last page of Beethoven 9...
 

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