There's a bassist in Montreal who doesn't use thumb position. It seems like he just continues with the same pattern as the rest of the neck but instead of using his pinky he uses his ring finger. It seems like a really good way to do it.
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Double Bass Thumb position: what part of thumb hits the string?
- Thread starter MingusAmongUs
- Start date
I used to do that a long time ago. Now that I've gotten comfortable with having four fingers instead of three, it doesn't seem tempting anymore.
To me there is a "string player's hand" . If your index finger is shorter than your ring finger and your pinkie extends past the last joint of the ring finger then chances are your palm is fairly square. It helps if your palm is also fairly broad. This shaped hand will play any instrument easily (perhaps not the French Horn where the hand is inserted cone- shaped into the bell to mute sounds?).
People with long index finger, short pinkie and sloping palms can and do play bass but can have problems with the left elbow fouling the bass ribs before the left hand reaches the bottom of the neck. Also the pinkie won't reach the strings comfortably much earlier than the "string player's hand" above. The answers are (1) to play on a bass with very dropped shoulders (like Rabbath's) and (2) substitute ring finger for pinkie earlier than Simandl 5th position (E flat, E and F on G at base of neck, the last "neck position (?). F sharp is the last note I can play with 4th finger but often use 3rd.
From thereon up, over the shoulders past this "transition area" and into "thumb position" the pinkie pulls away from the finger board as the left hand progressively points diagonally down towards the bridge. There are usually two fingering options (1) use the thumb (2) remain with 123 fingering. Choosing between either depends on context.
In this high part of the finger board I would suggest there are no rules, only guidelines. This is where the differences between people's hands really show and each player develops their own techniques. By the time students study this area they should be well on the way to becoming their own teacher and figuring out their own best solutions if they have been taught well. It could be that your thumb is double jointed or lacks sufficient strength to reliably use.
So, if the shape and strength of hand, thumb and fingers force you and/or context permits, I see no harm in not using the thumb at all. The notes are so close together.
DP
That was a really interesting post to read. The aspect of the technique that I found appealing was that I would not have to make a big "shift" to go into thumb position. As it is now, when I go into thump position I tend to want to stay there, where the notes are under my finger but don't necessarily sound as good as they might in other places. I guess I really just have to practice it more (make thumb position sound better and the transition smoother).
On a side note, you said that by the time students study the area, they should be at an advanced level (that's how I understood it). I've been practicing thumb position almost since I started playing bass. I go at a very slow pace through my Rabbath book but I can't remember doing anything less than 2 octave scales which forced me to go into thumb position very early in my playing.
On a side note, you said that by the time students study the area, they should be at an advanced level (that's how I understood it). I've been practicing thumb position almost since I started playing bass. I go at a very slow pace through my Rabbath book but I can't remember doing anything less than 2 octave scales which forced me to go into thumb position very early in my playing.
I often find it hard to (think) play in tune in thumb position so when I'm in a hurry I play most any note up to maybe a D or Eb with my thumb, bone at first joint. This is easier and quicker for me than throwing a finger up there.
Kneehimiah
www.ramonpooser.com
I studied with Petracci some 33 years ago and teach a lot of advanced thumb stuff. My callous is a big ridge from near the nail to just over the bone. When soloing (jazz) I often use thumb position back to D on the G string, and sometimes further back. One of the big advantages of thumb postion is the ability to hit a 3rd or even a fourth without shifting. My thumb always holds down the string even when I'm fingering with other fingers. I think that thumb position should be taught from day one. That way you don't develop bad transition habits. Once the callous develops, no pain at all.
An important sidenote--- make sure that the wrist has as little bend as possible. Bent wrist= possible tendonitis down the road.
An important sidenote--- make sure that the wrist has as little bend as possible. Bent wrist= possible tendonitis down the road.
The default spot where the string hits my thumb aligns with the bottom of the nail, especially when I am in the “closed” thumb position (covering a m3rd). That said, that’s not the only way we play, so my callous is a long, heavy ridge that runs from the knuckle to the end of the thumb; I use various parts of my thumb to stop the string, depending on what else the other fingers are doing, and on which strings. My left thumbnail is also significantly creased/bent along its length from playing in TP, which helps as the thumb moves around.
I don't need to use the knuckle because my thumb callous is thick. If I did use the knuckle, I would be able to reach less with the other fingers.
Like others above, I use thumb position fingering well below the octave harmonic, depending on what I am playing, both in improvised and written passages. Sometimes my hand is spanning a minor third in TP, so the string hits near the bottom of the nail. Sometimes my hand is spanning a P4th, so the string is hitting closer to the thumb’s tip.
I use TP fingering routinely below the octave, without a second thought, back to the D on the G string. I will go pretty far back towards the nut if I am chasing/developing an improvised idea. So, where the string actually hits my thumb has a lot to do with where I am on the fingerboard (high or low), which string(s) I am stopping, and what other fingers are doing.
I don't need to use the knuckle because my thumb callous is thick. If I did use the knuckle, I would be able to reach less with the other fingers.
Like others above, I use thumb position fingering well below the octave harmonic, depending on what I am playing, both in improvised and written passages. Sometimes my hand is spanning a minor third in TP, so the string hits near the bottom of the nail. Sometimes my hand is spanning a P4th, so the string is hitting closer to the thumb’s tip.
I use TP fingering routinely below the octave, without a second thought, back to the D on the G string. I will go pretty far back towards the nut if I am chasing/developing an improvised idea. So, where the string actually hits my thumb has a lot to do with where I am on the fingerboard (high or low), which string(s) I am stopping, and what other fingers are doing.
